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Excerpt: Economies [merged]

vagabundo

Adventurer
Silverblade The Ench said:
Eh? one FIFTH?? That's just dumb. So a 50,000 GP greatsword +3 of KoboldCrunchiness, you sell it for 10,000 gp, no WAY are my players gonna accept that rubbish, nor should I expect them too (unless they blow a skill check and get fleeced :p).

Well then they should get into another line of business, heaven forbid, that they should have to work to support themselves.

The selling of items makes more sense to me now, since PCs only get a fraction of what they are worth. They are like stolen goods, that is about what you will get if you try to sell your loot to fence.

Actually, the PCs have killed something and stolen its stuff!!
 
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Kid Charlemagne

I am the Very Model of a Modern Moderator
Here's my take on this. The only difference I see in the 3E and 4E systems is that 4E is trying to discourage the magic shop/selling magic concept via the 1/5 selling price and residuum (I like handwavium, though perhaps I like phlobotinum better).

I would like to see a sidebar explaining what PC's could do to sell magic items at closer to full price - I will probably allow some means of selling at full price - however, it will involve serious time (just as I do it in 3E). In my current game, I've got magical auctions that take place every 4 months where PC's can try to sell items at higher than the standard sale price. For big items, I think it should take a long time to find an appropriate buyer if you want to sell full price.
 

Mark Plemmons

Explorer
Jedi_Solo said:
Sure, the king MAY be interested in purchasing the +5 Sword of UberKewlness but there is no way strangers would be allowed to see the king with a weapon (which is kind of required in this situation). In a world with high magic (as evidenced by the fact the +5 Sword of UberKewlness exists) it is highly unlikely the strangers would be allowed in the same room as the king and the sword even if the sword is only held by the captain of the king's personal guard (who knows what that sword is capable of).

More likely, the PCs announce they have the sword and ask if the king would be interested.

"Bah! Our king is 25th level! As such, all magic weapons he encounters cannot be beneath his notice, and must be appropriate for 26th level! Get out of here with your magic trinket!" :)
 

keterys

First Post
Silverblade The Ench said:
Eh? one FIFTH?? That's just dumb. So a 50,000 GP greatsword +3 of KoboldCrunchiness, you sell it for 10,000 gp, no WAY are my players gonna accept that rubbish, nor should I expect them too (unless they blow a skill check and get fleeced :p).

Truthfully, I think it makes far more sense that it can't be sold at all. No one has the money or interest to buy such high level items. At least not at anything approaching the price you make them at.

There can be rare exceptions, and I'm guessing that very low level items can actually switch over to a much higher sell rate, but by and large... no buyers, unless you drop your price to the point where it's a steal. And even then, often not.
 

Storminator

First Post
Kid Charlemagne said:
Here's my take on this. The only difference I see in the 3E and 4E systems is that 4E is trying to discourage the magic shop/selling magic concept via the 1/5 selling price and residuum (I like handwavium, though perhaps I like phlobotinum better).

I would like to see a sidebar explaining what PC's could do to sell magic items at closer to full price - I will probably allow some means of selling at full price - however, it will involve serious time (just as I do it in 3E). In my current game, I've got magical auctions that take place every 4 months where PC's can try to sell items at higher than the standard sale price. For big items, I think it should take a long time to find an appropriate buyer if you want to sell full price.

I see it as the part of the game we aren't really playing, just moving on the actual interesting stuff. So it's done quick and easy.

If your players want to make the focus of the game the selling the magic loot, by all means make entire sessions and campaign arcs out of selling items. Making it challenging, introduce enemies that want to prevent them from earning gold, and adventurers that come in and kill them and take their stuff. Perhaps you even handwave the acquiring items, since that's obviously of no interest.

PS
 

Fanaelialae

Legend
pawsplay said:
Chicken farms, indeed. Who says that vengeful DMing is a lost art?
I have a hard time thinking of logic, economics, and versimillitude as "loopholes."
Only an utter moron would refuse to allow the PCs a hard won victory over great obstacles.

IMO, it is the DMs duty to maintain game balance. If a player came up to you and asked to replace their fighter's daily power with:

Heroic Fighter Power X [Monthly, Reliable]
Hit: 99[W]

would you allow it? Would you allow it if he gave you logical reasons for it, such as a quest he had to go on to find the one master of this special @sswhoopin technique? If he pointed out to you that since it is only once every 33 days, it should be 33 times as powerful as a fighter daily? If he wrote a fifty page short story justifying why his character should have this power?

I wouldn't. There are some things that imbalance the game. That power would be one of them. Allowing players to regularly sell their magic items for 100% value and buy items that are X levels above what they're supposed to have is another.

Granted, if you enter into a gentlemen's agreement (as someone in this thread suggested earlier) that the money will be spent on items that don't increase the PCs' power, like a castle, I don't see a problem with it. If you enter into an agreement whereby the players are trading equivalent magic items with the trader, that'd be balanced too (it wouldn't make sense from the point of versimilitude- how the heck does this trader make money if all he ever does is trade items of level X for items of level X- but it should be balanced).

But if your players are able to sell off all of their magic gear at level 10 (or even 15) to buy even just one level 30 uber sword of god-slaying, it suggests that the DM may have made a mistake. The party will be lob-sided and actually more prone to dying because of this (since they've pawned all their defensive gear), while at the same time the god-slayer wielding fighter will blenderize everything in sight. That's not a desirable outcome for anyone, as far as I can tell.

It isn't the DM's job to punish the players, but just like a child trying to stick their finger into an electrical socket because they're curious, sometimes players can be very short-sighted. The uber level 30 god-slaying sword (at level 10) that looks like fun today, may well ruin the campaign tomorrow. That's when the DM, like a responsible parent, has to respond with a firm NO. If your players don't need this kind of regulation, fantastic! Some, however, do.
 

Knightlord

First Post
Fanaelialae said:
It isn't the DM's job to punish the players, but just like a child trying to stick their finger into an electrical socket because they're curious, sometimes players can be very short-sighted. The uber level 30 god-slaying sword (at level 10) that looks like fun today, may well ruin the campaign tomorrow. That's when the DM, like a responsible parent, has to respond with a firm NO. If your players don't need this kind of regulation, fantastic! Some, however, do.

LMAO! Reminds me of that Family Guy Episode:

Peter: I want this and this. (holds out two candy bars)

Lois: You can have "one", Peter.

Peter: But that man over there got two.

Lois: "I don't care" what the other men are getting, you're only getting one.

Peter: I HATE you...

:D
 

Fanaelialae

Legend
Knightlord said:
LMAO! Reminds me of that Family Guy Episode:

Peter: I want this and this. (holds out two candy bars)

Lois: You can have "one", Peter.

Peter: But that man over there got two.

Lois: "I don't care" what the other men are getting, you're only getting one.

Peter: I HATE you...

:D

LOL!
 

eleran

First Post
keterys said:
Sale of magic items is like sale of used soda.

Got it.

Hong's second law seriously should be kicking in by now.


Not as long as they have breath in their bodies and keys on their keyboards.
 

Andor

First Post
I do like how in the same breath the People for Extravagant Markup suggest that trying to skirt the established merchants will simultaneously result in hordes of adventurers trying to steal their stuff, as well as hordes of assasins from Wallmart's secret underground lair.

No wonder there is such a markup on magic items, it all goes into the overhead of maintaining hordes of Ninja Death Squads to protect the items from armies of thieving Paladins.
 

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