Excerpt: Minions. Go forth mine minions! Bring havoc with your 1 hp [merged]

[Blackeagle]

If any attack that does damage kills a minion does that mean that a first level pc can kill a level 30 minion on a crit? ( i say on a crit because a level 1 should not be able to hit a level 20 any other way) I am not sure I like that but then as a DM i would never set that kind of situation up. To ez to kill the pc or give them waaaay too much xp.

Um, they explicitly mention this in the excerpt:

When you use minions, you should use those of a level appropriate to the encounter you’re building. The concept of minions is to provide fun filler for encounters, not to provide a way for a 1st level character to gain 1,000+ XP for defeating a 23rd-level abyssal ghoul minion by rolling a natural 20. Minions are a rules abstraction, and one of the many tools a DM has to build exciting encounters.

Edited to add:
Dang, Ninja'd x2

 

[AllisterH]

On an unrelated note:
How much mileage do you think we can get from this single sentence?

For example, the level 8 angel has 88 HP and his basic attack is a 1d8+4 longsword plus a 1d4+4 dagger, which means that level 8 characters are going to be dealing ~14-22 damage each attack. If you assume that a single PC should be dropped in 6-8 basic attacks (PC's usually win), that means that a typical PC should have 102-136 HP (1d8+6 +1d4+4 * 6-8)

The level 13 giant has 159 HP, which means 13th level PC's should be dealing 26-40 damage. He deals 1d10+5 damage with a greatclub, which amounts to 63-84 HP for the PC's.

So it's interesting that the angel of valor deals far more damage than appears level appropriate, compared to the 5 levels higher giant. Or maybe this is the difference between the Brute and Soldier designations.

Well, keep in mind, we also know from last week's magic article, what the progression should be for the PC's static bonuses.

At level 8, Kathra (from DDXP) is looking at an attack bonus of +11 (+3 from base STR, +2 from STR increase at lvls 4 & 8, +2 from magic weapon, +4 from half-level increase) with a defence bonus of 25 (19 at level 1, +4 from half-level, +2 from magic armour). Her HP should be around 89 (base of 33 + 7 hp per level)

Meaning the angel hits only on a 12 or higher and does on average per round, 8.5 which means the angel could drop Kathra in 10 rounds

Compare with the Hill Giant
Kathra at level 13, HP 117, AC 28. Hill Giant hits on a 13 or higher and does an average per round of only 4.2 pts per round. Something is really weird about the hill giant unless the effect of Reach and the knockback/prone power is that powerful....

 

[Crashy75]

...
Edited to add:
Dang, Ninja'd x2

Yes, the force is strong with this... Rechan.

 

[ncc4781]

I realize that my post was an extreme example but I have read that encounter design is made to be flexible. IF i want a large group of enemies to fight a party but I want it to be a very difficult fight why not use minions a few levels higher?

 

[Peter LaCara]

Well, keep in mind, we also know from last week's magic article, what the progression should be for the PC's static bonuses.

At level 8, Kathra (from DDXP) is looking at an attack bonus of +11 (+3 from base STR, +2 from STR increase at lvls 4 & 8, +2 from magic weapon, +4 from half-level increase) with a defence bonus of 25 (19 at level 1, +4 from half-level, +2 from magic armour). Her HP should be around 89 (base of 33 + 7 hp per level)

Meaning the angel hits only on a 12 or higher and does on average per round, 8.5 which means the angel could drop Kathra in 10 rounds

Compare with the Hill Giant
Kathra at level 13, HP 117, AC 28. Hill Giant hits on a 13 or higher and does an average per round of only 4.2 pts per round. Something is really weird about the hill giant unless the effect of Reach and the knockback/prone power is that powerful....

Also, the Angel of Valor is a Soldier and the Hill Giant is a Brute. Something to keep in mind there.

As for the Legion Devils, assuming they all go on the same initiative, they have some nasty tricks they can pull. Two devils start off adjacent to each other, so they've got their defense bonus. One guy ports to a flanking position around an enemy. They both attack with Combat Advantage. Then the other guy ports adjacent to his buddy, so they're getting the defense bonus again.

Nasty.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

I realize that my post was an extreme example but I have read that encounter design is made to be flexible. IF i want a large group of enemies to fight a party but I want it to be a very difficult fight why not use minions a few levels higher?

I dont see anything wrong with that as long as its just a few levels.

 

[hong]

I realize that my post was an extreme example but I have read that encounter design is made to be flexible. IF i want a large group of enemies to fight a party but I want it to be a very difficult fight why not use minions a few levels higher?

If you know what you're doing, why not indeed?

 

[Blackeagle]

I realize that my post was an extreme example but I have read that encounter design is made to be flexible. IF i want a large group of enemies to fight a party but I want it to be a very difficult fight why not use minions a few levels higher?

I'd say within a few levels of the characters is still, "a level appropriate to the encounter". They talked on the D&D podcast about how many levels you could go above character level and still have a good encounter, so I'm sure it will be in the DMG. My rule of thumb would probably be that if you would use a regular monster of that level in an encounter, it would be appropriate to use four minions of that level instead. If the regular monster would walk all over the characters, then using a minion in its place would probably be a bad idea.

 

[Ravingdork]

I can just imagine a line of Legion Devils marching forward then stopping and teleporting. Each of them teleporting around the party to form a reverse box-formation. Each would be beside another Devil so they would still have the Squad Defense while closing in.

And I can just imagine a line of legion devils charging a line of enemies (such as an opposing military force) only to have their first line teleport behind their enemies' line and trap them in a pincer attack.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

And I can just imagine a line of legion devils charging a line of enemies (such as an opposing military force) only to have their first line teleport behind their enemies' line and trap them in a pincer attack.

Then there just needs to be a Devil with "Wall of Fire" to race down the line of the trapped force and their screwed.