Excerpt: Multiclassing (merged)

Voadam, I think that you are actually looking for a striker MCed to wizard. Most of the things you want,

"divinations (locate object, see invisible, analyze dweomer, scry, legend lore) and utility spells (knock, summon monster, teleport, shadow walk, fly, limited wish),"

are most likely going to be rituals. The best guesses for rituals at this point are going to be that you can access them through a feat/skill. This means that there is relatively little need for wizard power for these things.

The rest of what you have stated as goals seem to be striker abilities, backed up by wizard abilities. What you are overlooking is that class in 4e leads to role in 4e. Role is specifically combat role. Meaning that you can think about how you want to behave in combat, and pick a class that does that style of combat best, and if your best fit class doesn't have what you need, then a splash of 4e style multiclassing can likely get you what you want. The rest of what makes your character who s/he is may largely be dependant on skills and feats. Only combat role is really dependant on class anymore, and none of these metagame concepts like class, role, skills, and feats are real to the character. His concept of self can include wizard, despite not having the wizard base class, as long as he can do a sufficient amount of what he considers wizardly stuff.

So if your stated combat goal is,

"In combat I like him to primarily hack things apart in melee while magically enhanced, and only secondarily do ranged attacks like scorching ray or cone of cold or battlefield control like wall of ice or web. I'm fine with him being a decent but second tier melee combatant who does not usually stand out in that role, but can handle it decently enough,"

then this very much fits with a melee striker that has MCed into wizard for a few control powers, but promarily fits the melee striker role in combat. All of the out of combat stuff that feels like 3.x wizard stuff has likely been divorced from the wizard class in 4e. These out of combat roles can be fulfilled by any class.

As long as you are able to give up 3.x mechanics, and truthfully state your character concept without any game mechanics attached, then you can rebuild basically whatever character you can think of in 3.x as a 4e character. You just need to understand the implications of 4e in building a character concept. There will be no 1 to 1 conversion of characters builds from 3.x to 4e. There will be relatively easy character concept translation from all your 3.x, BECMI, GURPS, Wheel of Time, Dragonlance, LotR, or whatever, to 4e. The system seems at this point to be very robust and flexible, as long as you can step outside of the box created by other rulesets' mechanics.

And all of this should have been predicated on the statement that, these are conclusions I have drawn from all of the leaked info regarding 4e up to this point. I am using a limited data set drawn from preview material and compliled by raving fanbois. The real rules will probably be enlightening to us all in June. But I still feel that my conclusions adhere very closely to the spirit of all of the teasers released by WotC and all the playtesters.
 

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katahn

First Post
Voadam said:
Right, starting with the goal I'm serious about being a wizard MCing into a striker instead of a striker MCing into wizard to recreate this character.

Like someone else said... stop thinking about 3.5e classes and start thinking about the end result. While you like to think of the character as a wizard who picks up other stuff, the rest of how you actually describe the character functioning is at odds with that. A 4e wizard has lots of ranged single target and AoE attacks and spells that manipulate the battlefield in a big way. Your character as described has or uses very little of that and functionally is a melee striker with magic spells additionally.

Starting off as a wizard will not give you what you describe as desirable in character function. Multiclassing into wizard from a more appropriate base-class will I think. There is absolutely nothing wrong with role-playing your character differently of course, but from a mechanics pov I think you need to start forgetting how it would happen in 3.5e and insisting that 4e model that particularly closely.

By MCing into a wizard you are eligible for all wizard paragon and epic paths, you are eligible for all wizard-prerequisite feats, and you can grab skill training for any and all of the rituals you might like. Since your concept is based heavily on the wizard's utility spells rather than direct attacks, your DM might even allow you to forego taking encounter/daily spell MC feats and focus on utility spell feats. However you slice it, your core function is "hit them with my sword" and that doesn't include "wear heavy armor and be defenderish" and so regardless of other fluff,... that's a striker first and foremost and thus a striker class needs to be your base.
 

Xanaqui

First Post
DM_Blake said:
Oh, and one more caveat...

From the POV of actually being the hero, all things considered, I like to be the invincible kind.

If I had to strap on some armor, and go crawling through dark dangerous dungeons (DDD), and I had my choice to either A) be all powerful, able to find traps, slay monsters, heal myself, and cast endless magical utility, or B) pick one of those things and rely on strangers to join me in the DDD so that they can, hopefully, do the rest of that stuff without screwing up and getting me killed, I would pick A.

So, when I game, I try to go for A there, too, though I'm not so singlemindedly dedicated to the idea in a game as I would be if it were real life.

But, my current group of players in the group I'm not DMing has me thinking that self-sufficiency is required. One player can never be counted on to make good tactical decisions. He's a dual-wielding barbarian who never rages, not even once in months of play, and deals about an average of 10 HP per hit at 9th level. Our only rogue shows up to 1/3 of the game sessions and generally detects traps by blundering into them, or hanging out in the back to let the barbarian set them off first. Our cleric things nothing of charging into battle screaming prayers to Kord, and is usually the first one to go unconscious - at best she's spending round after round healing herself to stay alive, so nobody else gets much healing. Our fighter ok, fairly dependable and makes good tactical decisions. And I'm the mage. I usually account well for myself, but since I get no protection from the group and very little healing, and most of the monsters are intelligent enough to take me out first, I spend most of my combats using defensive utility just to try to stay alive.

Yeah, I like the players, and enjoy the gaming, but that's the kind of group that makes me want to be Superman.
Personally, I'd prefer to specialize. Generalization (barring poorly designed rules) tends to make the party as a whole weaker.

If you continue in 3.x, just pick your spells carefully, create magic items judiciously, and wait to level up a few more times. By LV 13 or so, a 3.x Wizard/Sorcerer should be able to largely self-defend, and be a major damage dealer in the party.

Alternatively, you could boost the other PCs- Making a decent weapon for the barbarian, decent armor/ AC improving items for the Cleric and almost anything useful for the Fighter may make your job enough easier to be worth the costs. Conversely, you could cast buff spells to much the same effect.
 

Scipio202

Explorer
So in Rodney Thompson's new blog post he talks about his wizard who multiclassed into fighter (apparently using some things from the martial power sourcebook).

Wednesday night in my D&D game I got to flex my wizard's multiclass fighter muscle. I saved our cleric, Divin, from having his soul sucked out by an Oni thanks to my sweet fighter multiclass feat (out of the Martial Power Sourcebook), and on the next round I got to use my fighter encounter power (also from MP) to give all my comrades the edge we needed to take him down. I actually was rolling way, way higher on my longsword-based attacks than I did on my spells (magic missile, why do you hate me so?) and I got to stand back-to-back with Anvar, our Dragonborn fighter, in a very cool scene where he and I blocked a narrow hallway as orcs and ogres rushed forth to die upon our blades. Meanwhile the rest of the party was getting knocked around by some basilisks, but we had a very 300 moment as none of the orcs could rush past us to reinforce the basilisks beyond.

So (a) it seems that MCing from wizard into fighter could be useful, and (b) this seems to suggest that future sourcebooks might provide different initial MC feats, possibly providing different features/powers than those in the PHB. That would certainly create more MC variety.
 


Lizard

Explorer
Mustrum_Ridcully said:
Interesting. So the multiclassing feats we have seen will not be the last ones...

Yes. It makes sense. A year from now, there will be a lot more basic options for characters -- so MC options should expand as well.
 

Fallen Seraph

First Post
Probably not proper etiquette to do so, but... Called it!

http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4195405&postcount=141
You know just thinking. There could be different class-variants for each classes multiclass. Since they did individually name them.

So there could be three different Ranger multiclass-feats, three different Fighter multiclass-feats, etc. Each would focus on different skill, class feature, etc.
Yeah, this will add in my eyes even more flexibility/customization. Since now we can even be more picky about which abilities from the fighter for example to pick.
 

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