Excerpt: Swarms

[Mengu]

That fight would have been quite different if:
A) the swarms had gone first, instead of the PCs
B) the swarms hadn't been so piled up that AoE were able to hit all of the swarms.

Most certainly.

Did one more test with KotSF characters at 1st level against 4 swarms (to see how different it would be compared to the DDXP group). It wasn't much different. TPK in quick order.

The biggest factors to the outcome seem to be initiative and knowing your enemy. With the second level party, if the wizard hadn't gotten initiative, and didn't know to use an action point at first opportunity, the fight could easily have gone south.

Next test, 3rd level party vs 6 swarms...

 

[Ander00]

Ok bad example I missed that one... But what about the stirge? How big is a stirge? It says they're batlike so does that mean they're the size of a bat?

I'm just saying I hope all of the creatures have some sort of indicator as to how big a single member is.

I hope so too, but I doubt it. Given that the swarm is level 12, it's possible there is an entry for single stirges telling us their size, but i wouldn't hold my breath. Otherwise, I'd picture the new stirge to have a wingspan of roughly 1 foot.


cheers

 

[Family]

Did one more test with KotSF characters at 1st level against 4 swarms (to see how different it would be compared to the DDXP group). Next test, 3rd level party vs 6 swarms...

Believe it or not but after I went through KotS as a player, I then played the 5 PCs and all the badies by myself

It's great for learning the rules/tactics and I can do it anytime I want, not as fun as playing with others but not without merit either.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

I wonder...

what would Alchemist Fire be considered as? If it a burst/area attack, then wouldn't this be a (bad) example of not having the right gear?

That's actually a good point. I've always perfered the idea of adventurers erring on the side of caution and taking alchy bombs, holy water, etc. when going out at early levels. This would definitely serve that purpose.

 

[Counterspin]

This inability to reconcile additional attacks into the XP math worries me. If this is not a typo, then swarms are going to end up being way below their actual XP value. Additionally, it suggests that there are still developers at WOTC who don't grasp the vital importance of the economy of actions, which is a disturbing sign for the system as a whole.

 

[Voss]

The drake swarm wouldn't look so bad if it was using its str bonus rather than what appears to be its dex bonus, and maybe a small die type.
How would people react if the attack was:
+6 vs AC, 1d6 +2, (2d6+2 if prone).

Of course, I don't quite see why the stirge swarm has a +4 damage bonus, since that doesn't match any of its stats (and the damage bonus has been consistently matching up with strength on other monsters so far)

 

[Spatula]

P.S. Compare this to a kobold dragonshield, they're both level 2 soldiers, right? Also, we do have stats for a rat swarm (I don't have them on me, but someone else probably does), if we want another swarm to compare balance against. I don't remember reacting violently when I saw that.

rat swarm, level 2 skirmisher
init +6, perception +6 low-light
swarm attack aura 1
hp 36, ac 15, fort 12, refl 14, will 11
resist/vulnerable as other swarms
speed 4, climb 2
attack +6 vs ac, 1d6+3 dmg, 3 ongoing (save ends)

Additionally, the kruthrik? has a swarm-like aura without being a swarm, that does a flat amount of damage instead of make-a-basic-attack.

 

[keterys]

So, same level, lower defenses, lower attack, lower damage, and much easier to escape from.

I'm really okay with the swarm implementation (resist/vuln, aura) - it just needs to be compensated in its attack line. I think the stirge and rat swarms are fine, especially with the ongoing damages not stacking (it's possible they're even underpowered, but that's not nearly as bad as overpowered)

 

[Sojorn]

P.S. Compare this to a kobold dragonshield, they're both level 2 soldiers, right?

Massive defense, damage and special trip ability from hell out of no where.

It looks like they took a paragon monster and just reduced it 10 or 15 levels.

 

[Surgoshan]

You may not have noticed, but the rats are a skirmisher, while the drakes are a soldier. That makes their implementation quite different. The drakes are meant to be front and center, the primary threat, while the rats are meant to come in and attack while you're dealing with something else.