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Excerpt: You and Your Magic Items

Alkiera

First Post
I, all of my players, and I think most players, have no problems with you altering some basic assumptions form the phb/dmg if you come out and say so from the start.

"Hi, I'm running a low-magic D&D campaign; PCs are restricted to Humans, and classes with the martial power source. Also, magical items will be bloody rare; you'll get a bonus by default every few levels to make up for them not being there."
or
"Hi, this game is taking place in my homebrew world of Sandistan; there are no halflings or elves here. Also, I've got a few rules that relate to the way magic works in this setting; the ways it differ are [...]"

That kind of thing goes far to avoiding "What do you mean I can't do X? It's says I can right here on page 126!"

Think of it as another way to not require rules mastery... the GM is likely to change the rules on you. 8)
 

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Ahglock

First Post
charlesatan said:
Inserting "If the DM allows it" every other page or so can be redundant.

And no to ambiguous rules of playing the game. D&D isn't trying to be a generic roleplaying system. There is a specific, common ground to play it (i.e. kill monsters, get loot) and gaming groups transition from there (i.e. adding/subtracting more social encounters, combat encounters, magic, etc.). You can sandbox in D&D but D&D isn't designed to be the perfect sandbox game.

I'd say there is plenty of room for more ambiguous "rules" in what I'd call the world building fluff rules section of the game. Ambiguous on what power word kill does, no not a good idea, ambiguous on whether or not selling a magic item is possible yes.
 

AZRogue

First Post
A DM telling a player "no" has been an aspect of DnD since it's beginning. I don't think there will be much problem continuing unless that particular player began his DnD experience with 3E or some other more recent incarnation. I don't know of any player that would ever question it.

The game has to provide its default assumptions--an approach I like better than vague options you choose from with no understanding of what's considered the baseline--and then the DM makes changes based upon their, or their players', tastes. "No, because the DM said so" has always been an effective, and appropriate, tool. The trick is to let them know up front what you're not allowing instead of switching rules on the fly (which isn't good).


edit: Oh, and I loved the article. I like the powers that tag along with the different magical items. Also, I'm curious regarding the restrictions on the number of magical item powers usable in a day. All in all, very nicely done.
 
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keterys

First Post
Kobold Avenger said:
I really wanted to see what some example implements are. I assume the property of the Holy Avenger is similar to some implements, but that +1d10 to radiant powers might be a lower amount compared to a dedicated magical implement.

I assume we're back to Wands of Fire and Wands of Frost now, but if those magical implements add damage to fire or ice spells respectively I'm curious what the bonus is.

The PrRC has three example implements in it - holy symbol, wand, and staff. Least, I think so. I might be wrong on the wand.
 

Majoru Oakheart

Adventurer
Aria Silverhands said:
Which is why the D&D books should be more ambiguous about creating a default "D&D". It creates too many perceptions that this is the way things should be and will always be when players read the book. The economics article could have easily said something like,"If the DM allows it, magic items can be sold for 20% of their base value. Blah blah blah..."

Instead, it starts off with the presumption that every DM is going to allow magic items to be sold for X amount of value and then decides, well unless the DM says otherwise.
You are right about the effects. However, I would prefer to play a game rather than a shell of a game.

I like to know if I like a game or not before I start playing it. There's a lot of ADVANTAGES to having a shared, default "D&D" both as a shared history and shared assumptions. It means I can show up to any D&D game and know what the rules are without having to learn a large set of house rules. I know that if I make a character, it will be accepted by the DM because I already know it makes sense in the game. It allows a world-wide campaign like Living Greyhawk of Living Forgotten Realms to function by allowing people to show up to a convention or gamesday and sit down and play with no explanation given on what is different about THIS D&D.

Given the above example that you gave, if you as a DM said "Sure, you can sell all your items for 20% as per the books." then everything goes smoothly.

If the books on the other hand said "Some DMs will allow selling of items, they will set the amount you will be given each time you sell an item, so ask them. Others will not allow selling of items. If you want to know what to do with an item once you no longer need it, consult with your DM. He'll explain how it works in his game." then it requires each and every person playing D&D to have a conversation with their DM about which version of the rules they are using and the details of their game. And I could see a 5 minute long explanation of the magic item economy being given out by some DMs(heck, I could see a 2 hour long explanation being given). And that's just ONE rule. If you write the entire book that way, you need to sit down for a good hour or 2 to learn which rules this game is using EACH time you play with a different DM.

Having the assumptions in makes the game easy for new people to learn, easier to switch DMs, makes the game go quicker in actual play(when some of these issues tend to come up). It also provides a shared experience. That way, when players of D&D gather on message boards or at conventions or at local gaming stores and they tell stories about their games(which they always do), there isn't a disconnect.

I know I once had a guy come up to me and tell me that he was playing a 1st edition game and in it, their group killed 200 Balors in a row, in one combat before taking on Asmodeus and killing him. They barely took damage and they were only 17th level. I was amazed as I couldn't see ANY way this was possible without dying horribly.

He explained that they all had swords that whenever they'd hit with them would do 20d6 fireballs centered on themselves but their own party was immune to them. When they crit it would do 40d6 fireballs, automatically kill their target and restore the entire party to full hitpoints. Their DM also didn't like spells being limited, so they could cast as many as they wanted.

That's when I realized...no way they were actually playing D&D, at least, not the D&D I knew. It was difficult to relate to that game of D&D. Rare as it is to meet other people who even play the game at all, it sucks to meet someone and realize that you can't even really talk about the game together.
 

keterys

First Post
TwinBahamut said:
I really hope that plain +1 longswords really are a thing of the past...

I intend to have basic +1 weapons in stores... and then never again shall they appear. 6/11/16/21/26 level loot will just have to be other slots in the game is all. Belts, hats, what not.
 

shadowlance

First Post
Inserting "If the DM allows it" every other page or so can be redundant.

Of course, inserting "You DM may require [additional requirements]" every few paragraphs is just as redundant...and they are doing that anyway. I think I see what Aria is saying here....it would be nice if the default was more middle of the road with suggestions for both more and less restrictive interpretations instead of always making the default rule the least restrictive.

Look at that section for identifying...

Default = everyone does it automatically
OR
slighly more restrictive = the DM may require an arcana check
OR
most restrictive = the DM may require a special quest

Why not make the default rule the arcana check and then say that the DM may ignore this requirement or may require a quest instead of the arcana check. It uses just as much space and still presents all the options, but it gives the DM the chance to either be "the good guy" or the "hardass".

I'm not really on either side of this issue. But I think that people are missing part of Aria's point.
 

Aria Silverhands

First Post
Shadowlance has it right. The default "mode" in D&D should be somewhat restrictive but not terribly so. This allows DM's to tailor their game in a way that players will perceive more positively. If I have a list of six house rules that decrease restrictions, players are going to view that more favourably than say someone else's game that lists two reduced restrictions and five increased restrictions.
 

FadedC

First Post
Aria Silverhands said:
Shadowlance has it right. The default "mode" in D&D should be somewhat restrictive but not terribly so. This allows DM's to tailor their game in a way that players will perceive more positively. If I have a list of six house rules that decrease restrictions, players are going to view that more favourably than say someone else's game that lists two reduced restrictions and five increased restrictions.

Funny how we've seen so many posts recently complaining about things NOT being allowed and the game being too restrictive. Now we are seeing somebody complain about the game not being restrictive enough because he wants to house rule things to be less restrictive and to be percieved as improving the game.

Really goes to show that no matter what you do, somebody will always complain.
 

Majoru Oakheart

Adventurer
shadowlance said:
Default = everyone does it automatically
OR
slighly more restrictive = the DM may require an arcana check
OR
most restrictive = the DM may require a special quest
You might want to read it again. It says "everyone does it automatically all the time."

If there is an extremely odd item like a cursed item or an artifact the DM might make you roll a check or even go as far as to go on a quest for a one of a kind item.

One is a rule, the other is setting expectations that there might be some items that break the rules.
 

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