Exploration based adventures/campaigns: how do you do it?

[Janx]

just a note about random tables/encounters.

I never recommend using random tables in-game (though there are times you may need to). Especially random encounters (as in the GM pauses the game, rolls a bunch of dice and scribbles for 5 minuites and then says, "whiile you were sleeping, an X comes out of the woods...roll init.")

I roll all my random generation stuff during the prep phase to invent new content.

So if you got a 25x25 hex grid the PCs are in the middle of, use the tables to generate what's in those hexes.

Now it is pre-determined. Sure, you could also just decide, or ignore die results. Its just that random tables are good ways to fluff out stuff, with less work for you, especially when you have a lot of content to build.

 

[Celebrim]

I roll all my random generation stuff during the prep phase to invent new content.

So if you got a 25x25 hex grid the PCs are in the middle of, use the tables to generate what's in those hexes.

Now it is pre-determined. Sure, you could also just decide, or ignore die results. Its just that random tables are good ways to fluff out stuff, with less work for you, especially when you have a lot of content to build.

While I agree that this is always best, sometimes its just not practical. For a 25x25 hex grid, if I wanted to prep the whole thing I might be tempted to turn my tables into a computer program/dice roller to generate the initial set of 625 results. And frankly, depending on your scale you are going to run into one of two problems.

Your hexes are big (36 miles), but only have one feature in them, resulting in lots of empty space. It might be days of travel time between features if features are easily missed and suddenly you'll be reaching for ways to add interest despite having 'prepped everything' ahead of time.

Your hexes are small (6 miles or smaller), so that one main feature might suffice for the moment (one game day's travel now involves possibly several events), but now you players might well leave the 25x25 grid during the first session if they just head in one direction consistantly.

And really, while 6 mile grid might be a good starting point for a low level sandbox, you'll quickly find the need for 1 mile grids or smaller in important areas.

And thats to say nothing about the problem that purely random results are usually undesirable over that scale because you want to start creating interconnections between encounters as you create them.

 

[Lackofname]

The thing is, you won't have time to do this. Even if you keep the scale of your sandbox really small - say 40x40 miles - you won't be able to really detail things at even the 1 mile grid level (1600 1 mile grid entries), much less the detail level you might feel you need for villages and lairs. Some amount of detail can't be completed ahead of time, and the success of an exploration game is heavily dependent on not having alot of empty spaces that look just like the other ones. You just won't be able to prepare enough material.

Except that this assumes every detail must be fleshed out with encounters.

It purely depends on how dense you want the monsters to be. If there are only, say, 6 random encounters period in a 1k square miles, then there's a lot of empty space to work with.

What I hear being described is a "open the door and there's a monster there" dungeoncrawl superimposed on an overland map.

I thought the point of Exploration was Exploring. The point is finding things. "Hey there's a fountain of youth over here" "Hey there's a giant chasm the size of a football stadium that goes down further than we can see - where does that go and what made it?" "Hey this is a giiant, half-buried cycloptian statue that is pointing in the distance - what's the relevance of this? Let' s try to uncover it" ""Hey there's a structure that doesn't fit the architecture/materials of the natives - why is it here?" A campaign focusing on "What or Why is that?" and "What does it do?"

I'm more interested in creating things and having the Pcs stumble on them and explore/play with these set pieces. I'm more interested in having the PCs interact with and play diplomats/politics with the natives.

I'm not interested in random tables and I'd rather this thread not focus on a discussion of random encounters. Can we move on from the issue? There must be more to Exploration games than that.

 

[Janx]

well, not to belabor the point, but I think the idea of using random tables to populate the map, is to figure out where all that stuff is in a systematic fashion, and then to create fluff to explain it all (or move it).

I've not played an exploration game. I can't tell you HOW to run one.

I would think though, that it shouldn't consist of walking to the adjacent hex and asking "what's there" and hoping to find something, because though the wilderness has lots of pretty stuff in it, it's pretty big and vast, and line of site is blocked, so if you're off by 500 feet, you're not going to see something.

Consider 2 historical exploration quests:

Lewis and Clark, and Cortez and the city of Gold.

Lewis and Clark did the hex-crawl thing. I don't think they had a specific goal other than head west and take notes. They probably passed through a ton of hexes not worth noting. As a GM, I'd skip all that boring stuff and say "9 days pass, when you come to a village of indians..."

Cortez (and his buddies) had a mission. Find the lost City of Gold. They were going to specific places, asking questions, and going again. Not a hex crawl. The DM probably had scenes for talking to natives, making random travel encounters, and dungeons that MIGHT be the lost city.

 

[Celebrim]

Except that this assumes every detail must be fleshed out with encounters.

I'm not sure I understand that objection. You are going to want to have a certain density of stuff to find. In fact, you are pretty much always going to want them to find 'something'.

What I hear being described is a "open the door and there's a monster there" dungeoncrawl superimposed on an overland map.

Every adventure is a dungeon. The only thing that really changes are what the room and corridors are defined as. I think where you are getting confused is that you think every room has a hostile monster in it. I'm not saying that.

I thought the point of Exploration was Exploring. The point is finding things. "Hey there's a fountain of youth over here" "Hey there's a giant chasm the size of a football stadium that goes down further than we can see - where does that go and what made it?" "Hey this is a giiant, half-buried cycloptian statue that is pointing in the distance - what's the relevance of this? Let' s try to uncover it" ""Hey there's a structure that doesn't fit the architecture/materials of the natives - why is it here?" A campaign focusing on "What or Why is that?" and "What does it do?"

Sure. And you can have 'fountain of youth' or 'cyclopian statue' or 'bottom less pit' as encounters in your random encounter table. There is absolutely no reason why a random encounter should be an encounter with a monster. Or you can place all of the above as features on your map. All I'm saying is that after you've done so, you are still going to have a bunch of empty space left over.

Why don't you read this thread:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/268013-how-map-pace-ruined-city.html

And in particular something like this:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/268013-how-map-pace-ruined-city.html#post5003890

and its followup two posts later.

That might give you a better idea with some concrete examples of where I'm going with this.

I'm more interested in creating things and having the Pcs stumble on them and explore/play with these set pieces. I'm more interested in having the PCs interact with and play diplomats/politics with the natives.

I haven't said anything that precludes any of that. In the original post, I talked about 5 steps in getting started. You seem to be really offended by #4. Ok fine, but actually start mapping out a large exploration centered campaign before judging whether I'm off my rocker.

I'm not interested in random tables and I'd rather this thread not focus on a discussion of random encounters. Can we move on from the issue?

Sure. I'm happy to assume, "Ok, you've got some content. What next?" without assuming how you get there. I'm just telling you that if you get into big open ended exploration games, you are going to want some really good random tables - random events, random weather, random monsters, whatever - because there isn't a better friend to the DM in need of a good jolt to his imagination than a well constructed table.

There must be more to Exploration games than that.

Sure. There is more to a good dungeon crawl than a map and an encounter key as well, but in a pinch, you can start running one with just that.

 

[fba827]

Craft a good scenario to get the PCs to think more than just 'wherever'

Example: Earthquakes are destorying the homeland kingdom. Scholars have recently realized there is another continent a couple month's boat ride away. So the PCs are tasked to go by boat to find a new land that the kingdom and its citzens can migrate to. You gloss over the boat ride as a narrative opening to the campaign, and start off with the PCs (and maybe a handful of fellow adventurers depending on whether or no you want NPCs there or not) on this new continent.
They have to find a land area that is large, unused, and enough resources to support an influx of people. Not to mention 'safe'


Have some basic geography ideas in mind for this continent. They could head to woodland to see how safe and plentiful the lumber supply is, mountains to see if there is good mining, etc.
Beyond that, i'd basically just make up a list of random encounters for different areas.

And then decide stuff like, are there any other civilzations on this continent, what is there level of development like, are they friendly/hostile/etc. though for the above example scenario, it's probably better if the existing civilzation is small and/or not advanced. Maybe they are all "primitive style" (using the primal power source if you're using 4th edition) meaning that style is 'off limits' to the PCs snce they come from a more 'civilized' culture on the originating continent.

 

[SoldierBlue]

Check this thread out, for what I think may be the most lucid example of true "sandbox" play. A very interesting and worthwhile read:

ars ludi » Grand Experiments: West Marches

 

[Celebrim]

Check this thread out, for what I think may be the most lucid example of true "sandbox" play. A very interesting and worthwhile read:

ars ludi » Grand Experiments: West Marches

That's very old old school. As described, 'The West Marches' are a essentially a mega dungeon.

And, to belabor the point probably too much, the author reiterates something I could have told you 15 years ago.

Another massively useful tool was the venerable yet mockable wandering monster table. No, seriously. Think about it: by creating a unique wandering monster table for each wilderness area (one for the Frog Marshes, one for the Notch Fells, etc.) I could carefully sculpt the precise flavor for each region. It made me think very carefully about what each area was like, what critters lived there and what kind of terrain hazards made sense (anything from bogs to rock-slides to exposure to marsh fever). They were effectively the definition for each territory.

Most tables also had one or more results that told you to roll on the table for an adjacent region instead. If you’re in Minol Valley you might run afoul of a goblin hunting party that came over the pass from Cradle Wood. The odds were weighted based on how likely creatures were to wander between the regions.

For all encounters there was also a chance of getting two results instead of one: roll twice and come up with a situation combining the two. It might be a bear trapped in quicksand, or a bear that comes across you while you’re trapped in quicksand. Combining two wandering monsters results is surefire way to come up with an interesting encounter.

Just having these detailed wandering monster tables at my fingertips meant I was always ready when players decided to do a little “light exploring.” These tables got used over and over and over again.

It sounds to me like he's doing everything right. He understands that 'encounter' means much more than 'monster', but that it becomes dull if it doesn't usually mean 'hazard/difficulty'. He understands the value of mix and matching. He understands how an encounter table like this defines a terrain type, and the utility of that. He understands that an encounter with a monster often represents a faction from a placed (non-random) encounter on the map.

 

[Jasperak]

Check this thread out, for what I think may be the most lucid example of true "sandbox" play. A very interesting and worthwhile read:

ars ludi » Grand Experiments: West Marches

Thanks for the link

 

[Lackofname]

So the PCs are tasked to go by boat to find a new land that the kingdom and its citzens can migrate to. You gloss over the boat ride as a narrative opening to the campaign, and start off with the PCs (and maybe a handful of fellow adventurers depending on whether or no you want NPCs there or not) on this new continent.

You just described my campaign. Granted, it's not "We need a place to flee to" but "Hey there's land over yonder we don't know about! There is obviously resources to be exploited! Strange things to be had. You, go explore it and set up a colony for us."

I have a strong idea of the "starting area", and what's there (and beyond). I have enough material - I've combed through the Isle of Dread, Pathfinder's Mwangi Expanse, Eberron's Xen'Drik, and Greyhawk's... uh... the jungle-y area in Savage Tide (and where the Spire of Long Shadows is located in Age of Worms). I've even snooped through the Scarred Lands' books, as well as Exalted. I've stolen, filed off the serial numbers, and chosen what's going where.

What I need are the other things that fill in the gaps beyond "What's on the map". How to invoke the feel of Exploration and Wonder, getting the ball rolling and getting the players involved in asking questions, being invested and interested. How do you make the players feel like Indiana Jones or Lewis and Clark versus feeling like just another adventuring party plundering a dungeon. How do you make them say "ooh, I want to go there next".

1e is said to be big on Exploring the Dungeon, and I want to know how 1e did it. There has to be some various DM tricks that did so.