Expressing Damage without hit points?

[Ostler]

I'm looking for a way to have the characters take damage but not know how much exactly. So instead of

"You take 12 points of damage"

I'd like to say something more cinematic that would give the player an idea of how hurt they are without using numbers.

I'd still use hit points but the players would not know exactly how many hit points they have unless they or someone else does a heal check or something similar.

I'm thinking maybe a list of injuries based on damage done ala

20 - 30 pts = "You suffer a staggering would across your chest. Blood begins pouring down your body"

Or perhaps describing how injured they feel based on how many hit points they have left...

10% of Max Hit Points = "You are having difficulty standing and concentrating on combat as blood drips from your many wounds"


Anyone done something like this? I'm looking to build a list to help easy the difficulty of describing events off the cuff.


Thanks.

 

[Ranger REG]

Personally, the only way to do that is a wound-level system, like Mutants & Masterminds Damage Saving Throw.

To do it with the hp system would be difficult. A knife wound could kill the most common person (average 4 hp), but to a high-level character it feels like a pin stabbing you.

 

[Umbran]

Well, I'd think you'd not want to express things in terms of absolute number of hit points of damage dealt. A loss of 10 hit points might kill a 1st level character, but be a minor thing to a 20th level fighter.

Also note that hit point loss does not corresspond to actual bodily damage, especially for higher level characters. It's an amalgam of many things - actual wounds, minor scratches, muscle pulls, fatigue, luck, and the ineffible epically heroic ability to avoid dying when someone's trying to chop you into pieces. It's a wearning down of overall ability to resist dying.

This can make description a little tough, cinematically. Not all "hits" actually invovle bodily damage that would show "on screen", so to speak. Things get even more difficult when you factor in subdual damage.

And, if you describe each hit individually, it can be very difficult for the player to figure out even vaguely where they stand - "I've taken two nastily purpling contusions and one gash across the chest. What does that mean?" Most players (reasonably rightly, I think) expect that a person has a decent clue as to how much more punishment they can take, and how much pain they are in. A well crafted encounter can be tough, and characters can die if they don't know how much oomph they have left. They may well get upset if they feel you didn't give them a clear enough description.

You might consider describing the combat cinematically, and giving the player a vage idea of the fraction of the hit points he has left, rounded to the nearest 10% or something. "The minotaur takes a mighty swing with his axe, and you have to lean over backwards to avoid the stroke. You feel a twinge near your spine, and are down to about 80% of your total HP."

 

[Arthur Tealeaf]

Yeah, I've thought about this, nut haven't tried it out yet. I think it could work, as long as you give the players a clear idea about how much more they are gonna take, I think it would work fine.

And, it's true that 10 points of damage to a commoner and 10 points to a high level character are very difeerent things, but I don't think that should be a problem. Just describe the one as a fatal blow, the other as a minor graze of the sword.

 

[Liolel]

It defiantly needs to be a % of max hitpoints. Otherwise think of this
A fighter with 200 hitpoints take the same severity of described damage as a 20 hitpoint wizard

But hitpoints are a key part of decision making so even if they are out of character, it could lead to a misunderstanding where someone thought they were at say 30% strength when they really were at 10% and that person dies the next few attacks.

But its your group. Go with it if both you and they would like it. A dm can enforce any rule, but a dm with no players can't dm anymore adventures.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I often describe the hits with more than "he deals you 6 points of damage". I have no fixed list for that, but make it up as I go, considering the damage and their HP total, and also if it was a normal hit, a sneak attack, an averted crit or a scored crit.

It's important that you don't do it all the time. Especially if this session features a lot of combats with many participants and all, it will slow down the fighting overmuch. A normal "you get hit with 12 points" now and then is OK. Or, you have very short descriptions like: "he hits you on the arm for 5 points of damage".

 

[argo]

I have played under a few DM's who have tried this and as a player I have always hated it. A character has access to a wealth of information in the game world that the player of that character can never have. Just sit still for a minute and think about all the things you can actually feel about your body. Think about the times you've been sick or injured and the sort of awarness you had then. Now think that all a player has to go on is his character sheet and what the DM tells him. Sometimes the DM needs to overstate things in order to communicate to the player what his character already knows. Every time I have had a DM try to just describe what my injuries look like, as though I were watching the action in a movie, that is how I wound up feeling; like I was watching a movie and was totally disconected from my character. I mean, just what exactly does "You suffer a staggering would across your chest. Blood begins pouring down your body" mean anyway? Especially at higher levels when a character can fall off a mountain and walk away smilling?

Now, if you want to say "the Blackguard hefts his sword and with a mighty sweep brings it around and bites deeply into your chest. You suffer a staggering would across your chest. Blood begins pouring down your body. You take 30 points of damage." Thats just fine. It's cinematic and exciting. But you _need_ to tell your players what their character is feeling in terms that they, the player, can appreicate. And, in my experience at least, that means hit points.

 

[shilsen]

I'm currently DM-ing a campaign where I track the PCs' hit points. All they get are my descriptions. I base them off the amount of hit points the character normally has and how much are remaining. Here are a few examples from yesterday's session:

"The ghoul bites and claws at you, but you barely even feel it, though you may have lost a little hair." (To a wildshaped druid with 58 hp who lost 5)

"Unable to defend yourself, you feel multiple claws and teeth bite into your flesh, and everything goes dark" (same druid when she was paralyzed, attacked by a number of ghouls and got taken from 28 hp to negatives in one round)

"The orc's greataxe crunches off your armor. Even though it fails to penetrate, you'll be feeling that one for a while" (fighter with 84 hp taking 20 pts from a single hit)

"The ogre brings its club around in a huge arc to bash into your helmet. The blow would have killed a lesser man, and you feel just like a bell that got rung, but you're able to withstand the effects. You doubt you could do that again" (barbarian with 88 hp taking 47 pts from a crit)

Been doing this for the last dozen session, and so far it hasn't caused any problems. Only one player out of five had an issue with it.

 

[kamosa]

I'm looking for a way to have the characters take damage but not know how much exactly. So instead of

"You take 12 points of damage"

I'd like to say something more cinematic that would give the player an idea of how hurt they are without using numbers.

I'd still use hit points but the players would not know exactly how many hit points they have unless they or someone else does a heal check or something similar.

From experience, I predict you'll have a more cenematic description of the game, but a less cinematic and brave game. Players will overestimate the damage that has been done to them and will react by withdrawing, casting even more healing and generally taking far less risks.

In the end, the descriptions become just another short hand for hitpoints and become just as tired as saying how many hitpoints you've taken. IE: I've taken two chest stabs and an arm slash, I'd better be carefull I probably only have 15 or so hitpoints left. It gets tired really quickly for both the player and the GM.

As others have suggested, my advice is to spice up the description but also include the damage. IE: the barbarian sweeps aside your sword and delivers a powerful blow to your midsection, take 25 points. This gives the players something to imagine about the combat, but also allows them to keep playing the game and less like they are watching a movie.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

I'm a bit confused here.

Are you talking about not telling the PC how much HP they are losing with each it and replace it entirely by descriptions? If so don't. In D&D you need to know exactly how many HP you have left at any given moment.

If your talking about doing descriptions on top of the mechanical effect well, don't most DM do that to at least some degree?

Anyway, you need to look at the % of the remaining HP that the attack take to adjust your description.

Poster have said that 15 damage to a first level doesn't mean the same thing as to a 20th level, right? Well, if the 20th level PC has 4 HP left then that's still a killing blow and I describe it as such.