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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 7483502" data-attributes="member: 6801845"><p>Sorry, as someone else said in another thread, I failed my wisdom save. My point is that you've stated that the rogue should get to check for attacking with advantage pretty much every round without moving around. That to me equates to staying in 1 position and rolling a D20 to see if they're hidden to get advantage. Every round of pretty much every combat. For higher level rogues (especially if properly equipped) it's going to become pretty much automatic. You can add steps and fluff to that, but for most games it will become a rote roll of a D20 or 2 for their stealth check and asking if it's high enough to get advantage if they don't already know the target.</p><p></p><p>I think it would be boring for a lot of players. Of course, some players just want an "I win" button, but you can't please everyone.</p><p></p><p>In my games in most cases if they want advantage after the first round they have to engage. They have to ask questions about the environment, try to figure out a plan to get somewhere to hide. They need to think about tactics. Maybe they work with me to get smoke bombs and a grappling hook so they can Batman up to the balcony to set up hiding from a different position.</p><p></p><p>Or they can just be happy with doing reasonable damage round after round with sneak attack without as much risk. My experience in actual games is that rogues are on par with or exceed most other classes in consistent damage. I don't play in white-room scenarios on a spreadsheet, just relaying what I've seen. There are of course a lot of factors that will affect that and it will vary by level and game. On the other hand I have no clue what spell casters you play with that do more damage with cantrips than a moderately high level rogue.</p><p></p><p>In addition my games also involve a lot more than combat, which is where rogues tend to really shine. YMMV.</p><p></p><p>TLDR: I'll try to keep my sarcasm without explanation check; but no guarantee I won't fail my save again.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 7483502, member: 6801845"] Sorry, as someone else said in another thread, I failed my wisdom save. My point is that you've stated that the rogue should get to check for attacking with advantage pretty much every round without moving around. That to me equates to staying in 1 position and rolling a D20 to see if they're hidden to get advantage. Every round of pretty much every combat. For higher level rogues (especially if properly equipped) it's going to become pretty much automatic. You can add steps and fluff to that, but for most games it will become a rote roll of a D20 or 2 for their stealth check and asking if it's high enough to get advantage if they don't already know the target. I think it would be boring for a lot of players. Of course, some players just want an "I win" button, but you can't please everyone. In my games in most cases if they want advantage after the first round they have to engage. They have to ask questions about the environment, try to figure out a plan to get somewhere to hide. They need to think about tactics. Maybe they work with me to get smoke bombs and a grappling hook so they can Batman up to the balcony to set up hiding from a different position. Or they can just be happy with doing reasonable damage round after round with sneak attack without as much risk. My experience in actual games is that rogues are on par with or exceed most other classes in consistent damage. I don't play in white-room scenarios on a spreadsheet, just relaying what I've seen. There are of course a lot of factors that will affect that and it will vary by level and game. On the other hand I have no clue what spell casters you play with that do more damage with cantrips than a moderately high level rogue. In addition my games also involve a lot more than combat, which is where rogues tend to really shine. YMMV. TLDR: I'll try to keep my sarcasm without explanation check; but no guarantee I won't fail my save again. [/QUOTE]
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