Fallen paladins

[scott2978]

Hi everyone,

I've got a question about fallen paladins and I can't fimd an answer, maybe someone here can help. I'm a DM looking for a solution to a problem one of my players faces, preferably not through DM intervention.

So the character is a half-celestial, human, paladin 13 who has fallen and become an ex-paladin.

My question is this: What happens when he gains enough XP to gain a level? Since's he'a a fallen paladin, he can't gain more levels as paladin, so what calss does he have to pick? Is the character stuck into becomming a multiclass character? Can you gain levels in "Fallen Paladin"? The player doesn't want to multiclass, they want to remain the same class so when they hopefully return to paladin-hood they can continue their paladinhood.

Scott

 

[Havoc123456]

how did he fall?

 

[Rhun]

He needs to seek atonement ASAP. And I'm afraid DM Intervention is the only way to solve this, as the rules are fairly strict:

"Ex-Paladins

A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and abilities (including the service of the paladin’s mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may not progress any farther in levels as a paladin. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description), as appropriate.

Like a member of any other class, a paladin may be a multiclass character, but multiclass paladins face a special restriction. A paladin who gains a level in any class other than paladin may never again raise her paladin level, though she retains all her paladin abilities."

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Does This player want to stay fallen?
Than BlackGuard.

Does This player want to be redeemed?
Than Atonement quick.

As for the level, I'd suggest he takes his next level as a Fighter, than retrain it away as a Paladin level if he atones. This isn't the only option you have available, but it's likely the simplest. A Fallen Paladin without Paladin abilities is just a Gimped Fighter without Feats anyway. Handwave the multiclass restriction away with the retraining/regaining that as a Paladin level later. Swap out whatever Fighter Feat he gained with the restoration of the Paladin abilities.

 

[frankthedm]

Does This player want to be redeemed?
Than Atonement quick.

Just remember if the act that cause the fall was willing, casting Atonement also costs the caster 500xp. Since the rest of the party will probably get roped along with the paladin's redemption quest, here is the treasure share equivalent of the paladin's redemption if the paladin does not pay out of pocket.


660gp NPC spell-casting of Quest CL 11
550gp NPC spell-casting of Atonement CL 11 (NPCs don't sell themselves short)
2500gp ( 5gp per xp X 500 )
Total 3710 gp

 

[scott2978]

Thanks for the comments everyone,

The PC in question fell through some as yet un-invented alignment conflict. The character is starting out as a fallen paladin on the quest for redemption, but I overlooked the pitfall of what he would do when he gained enough xp to level up. He hasn't yet gained enough xp, but he mentioned to me that it would only be another session or two and that got me thinking.

The player doesn't want to take levels in anything that will impede his later paladin progression after he atones.

Is a PC requird to level up when they gain enough xp? What if they simply refuse? Is the xp lost?

If I throw out the rules and wing it, what's the most fair thing to do for this character? As for the matter of atonement, the PCs are on an epic quest to save the world already, which is why the fallen paladin has joined them in the first place, to achieve redemption through helping to save the world. I'm almost inclined to allow him to gain further levels in "fallen paladin" to keep it as simple as possible. It does sort of seem apropriate given that his lack of paladin abilities is a sort of self-imposed curse for comiting an act of evil (presuming that's what he did... it hasn't really been decided yet), which is really just supressing his class abilities and not terminating them permanently. Maybe upon atonemnet his class abilities simply become "unsupressed"... That does sort of gimp the character because he gets no class features as he levels up, but this particular character is a half-celestial half-human fallen papadin, so some of his racial abilities continue to work since they aren't dependant on alignment. None of the really good ones... but better than nothing.

Also forgot to mention we're playing 3.5

Scott

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

It sounds like the player wants to atone, but to do so in a way more longterm than the atonement spell alone would do. So just how long does the player want to keep up this atonment process? After a few levels, lagging behind could become burdensome for the party.

If you just want to wing it, you might do it in a couple phases. Perhaps allow an atonement spell to "get started" on his redemption, but retain mechanical penalties until the atonment is deemed complete.

Completely gimping him seems too much if he's expected to carry his weight, so maybe just reduce his abilities somewhat. For example, rather than suppress special abilities completely, maybe just consider his Pal level -4 in all respects except HP, BAB, feats and saves; and maybe he doesn't get to choose his own spells (they're random, DM's choice, or even no spells on some days); or something along those lines. If he uses a special magical weapon of his divinity, perhaps it stops functioning until he's fully atoned.

A simpler approach might be just making him receive an atonement spell each level, and doesn't get his next level's abilities until he does so. Or, running with the previous notion, maybe each atonement reduces his level penalty by one each level. So he starts at effective level -4, but that become -3 after gaining another level and atonement spell, then to -2 after another level and atonement spell, etc. That way he slowly catches up to the rest of the party over a few levels, and there's a definite point of "complete atonement" that the GM can anticipate, and prep a quest, or whatever is needed.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Lets Review what a fallen Paladin is:

"A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and abilities (including the service of the paladin’s mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may not progress any farther in levels as a paladin."

So, lets take a Paladin, remove Paladin Spells & Paladin abilities. We are left with:

Ability to use all simple and Martial weapons, all armor, all sheilds, full BAB progression, Good Fort Saves, Poor Reflex and Will Saves, d10 HD.

...Which is a Fighter, EXACTLY, with no feat progression. Fallen Paladin=Sucky Fighter.

So he's a Fallen Paladin level 13. That's BAB 13, Fort. 8 Ref. 4 Will 4. 13d10 HD. A Level 13 Fighter would stand next to him with 7 extra Feats. The fighter, who's spent his whole life wishing he was as cool as, well, anyone else, suddenly can feel a little better about himself.

Have your player take future levels in Fighter, and permit the Fighter feats out of Mercy so this character doesn't become completely useless.

Lets assume this player progresses 4 more levels, in Fighter, making him a Fallen Paladin13/Fighter4, and therefore gains 3 Fighter feats and then Atones. Drop the 3 gained feats to regain everything Paladin-ish back, plus 4 levels of extra Paladin putting him to a Paladin 17.

 

[Arkhandus]

The simplest solution in that circumstance is probably to just have him gain levels of Fighter until he receives Atonement, then begin retraining those Fighter levels into Paladin levels after the Atonment (through the retraining rules described in Player's Handbook II, which is a 3.5 D&D supplement from Wizards of the Coast). As DM, just handwave the multiclass restriction against multiclassing during the PC's time as an ex-paladin; just interpret that restriction to only apply while the PC is an active paladin. Once he regains his paladinhood, he can spend some time and effort retraining his Fighter levels into Paladin levels and then resume normal progression as a Paladin.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

The simplest solution in that circumstance is probably to just have him gain levels of Fighter until he receives Atonement, then begin retraining those Fighter levels into Paladin levels after the Atonment (through the retraining rules described in Player's Handbook II, which is a 3.5 D&D supplement from Wizards of the Coast). As DM, just handwave the multiclass restriction against multiclassing during the PC's time as an ex-paladin; just interpret that restriction to only apply while the PC is an active paladin. Once he regains his paladinhood, he can spend some time and effort retraining his Fighter levels into Paladin levels and then resume normal progression as a Paladin.

...Er, Yes. Why didn't I think of that?