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<blockquote data-quote="DammitVictor" data-source="post: 9027711" data-attributes="member: 6750908"><p>I am not interested in no kind of official <em><strong>nothing</strong></em> these days, but ever since the first season of <strong><em>Star Trek: Picard</em></strong> I've been dreaming of a Pathfinder setting based on the setting of Star Trek: not a space fantasy, just a <em>standard D&D world</em> with all of the standard (PF1) classes and all of the <em>standard D&D races</em> replaced with the Star Trek aliens. Based in the Picard era/timeline, where the mighty Romulan Empire has just fallen and the (undead) Borg invasion has left disassimilated survivors and weird magical artifacts all across the continent. No phasers or disruptors or replicators and warpdrives... just swords and crossbows and magic.</p><p></p><p>I'm imagining setting this down in front of my gaming group from twenty years ago, and I already know what everyone else is playing. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite15" alt=":cry:" title="Crying :cry:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":cry:" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Only problem with firearms in fantasy games is that most gamers and game designers don't understand <em>jack</em> about guns or their history. Primitive firearms in real-life replaced bows and crossbows on the battlefield, in professional militaries, because 1) guns are cheaper to manufacture than military-grade bows, 2) guns are easier to carry and maintain than bows, 3) powder and shot are cheaper to manufacture than arrows, 4) powder and shot are lighter and easier to carry than arrows, and 5) training a rifleman takes <em>weeks</em>, compared to <em>months</em> for an arbalest and <em>generations</em> for an English longbowman.</p><p></p><p>Guns in D&D are 1) expensive and rare, 2) consume ammunition that is <em>also </em>expensive and rare, and 3) require special, elite training beyond even the standards of the special, elite warriors represented by martial character classes. They're balanced accordingly.</p><p></p><p>Another part of the problem is... to put it bluntly... people actually believe that weapon damage dice are <em>realistic</em>. This problem is twofold. First, a longsword or a greataxe <em>realistically</em> does not do more damage than a dagger. A solid, square blow to a vital area with any of these weapons <em>kills the crab</em>; a glancing blow with any of these weapons does not <em>kill the crab</em> and doesn't substantially limit the crab's capacity to fend of the solid square blow that will. They have significant advantage (and disadvantages) compared to a dagger and there are reasons they're considered more <em>primary </em>weapons than daggers-- though most swords are merely sidearms-- but <em>damage dice</em> aren't among them.</p><p></p><p>Second... modern people from most walks of life-- excluding soldiers, first responders, and professional murderers-- dramatically underestimate how much damage non-firearm weapons really do, and dramatically <em>overestimate</em> how much damage firearms actually do. Bullets do a lot of tissue damage compared to their size, but they're still subject to the same principle as other weapons: a bullet that tears through specific vital organs or major blood vessels turns your birthdays off, and a bullet that doesn't... <em>doesn't</em>. A non-lethal bullet wound is more likely to do permanent, disabling damage than a wound from a lesser weapon, but it isn't any more likely to incapacitate the target.</p><p></p><p>The two most important factors for determining whether a non-lethal gunshot wound knocks the target down are 1) whether or not the target <em>realizes</em> they've been shot, and 2) whether or not the target has seen enough gunshots on television to know they're <em>supposed</em> to fall down.</p><p></p><p>Of course, if we're being honest neither gamers nor game designers <em>want</em> firearms to be mechanically realistic. We want them to behave like they do on television, which doesn't mesh well with the entire Hit Points model of combat.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DammitVictor, post: 9027711, member: 6750908"] I am not interested in no kind of official [I][B]nothing[/B][/I] these days, but ever since the first season of [B][I]Star Trek: Picard[/I][/B] I've been dreaming of a Pathfinder setting based on the setting of Star Trek: not a space fantasy, just a [I]standard D&D world[/I] with all of the standard (PF1) classes and all of the [I]standard D&D races[/I] replaced with the Star Trek aliens. Based in the Picard era/timeline, where the mighty Romulan Empire has just fallen and the (undead) Borg invasion has left disassimilated survivors and weird magical artifacts all across the continent. No phasers or disruptors or replicators and warpdrives... just swords and crossbows and magic. I'm imagining setting this down in front of my gaming group from twenty years ago, and I already know what everyone else is playing. :cry: Only problem with firearms in fantasy games is that most gamers and game designers don't understand [I]jack[/I] about guns or their history. Primitive firearms in real-life replaced bows and crossbows on the battlefield, in professional militaries, because 1) guns are cheaper to manufacture than military-grade bows, 2) guns are easier to carry and maintain than bows, 3) powder and shot are cheaper to manufacture than arrows, 4) powder and shot are lighter and easier to carry than arrows, and 5) training a rifleman takes [I]weeks[/I], compared to [I]months[/I] for an arbalest and [I]generations[/I] for an English longbowman. Guns in D&D are 1) expensive and rare, 2) consume ammunition that is [I]also [/I]expensive and rare, and 3) require special, elite training beyond even the standards of the special, elite warriors represented by martial character classes. They're balanced accordingly. Another part of the problem is... to put it bluntly... people actually believe that weapon damage dice are [I]realistic[/I]. This problem is twofold. First, a longsword or a greataxe [I]realistically[/I] does not do more damage than a dagger. A solid, square blow to a vital area with any of these weapons [I]kills the crab[/I]; a glancing blow with any of these weapons does not [I]kill the crab[/I] and doesn't substantially limit the crab's capacity to fend of the solid square blow that will. They have significant advantage (and disadvantages) compared to a dagger and there are reasons they're considered more [I]primary [/I]weapons than daggers-- though most swords are merely sidearms-- but [I]damage dice[/I] aren't among them. Second... modern people from most walks of life-- excluding soldiers, first responders, and professional murderers-- dramatically underestimate how much damage non-firearm weapons really do, and dramatically [I]overestimate[/I] how much damage firearms actually do. Bullets do a lot of tissue damage compared to their size, but they're still subject to the same principle as other weapons: a bullet that tears through specific vital organs or major blood vessels turns your birthdays off, and a bullet that doesn't... [I]doesn't[/I]. A non-lethal bullet wound is more likely to do permanent, disabling damage than a wound from a lesser weapon, but it isn't any more likely to incapacitate the target. The two most important factors for determining whether a non-lethal gunshot wound knocks the target down are 1) whether or not the target [I]realizes[/I] they've been shot, and 2) whether or not the target has seen enough gunshots on television to know they're [I]supposed[/I] to fall down. Of course, if we're being honest neither gamers nor game designers [I]want[/I] firearms to be mechanically realistic. We want them to behave like they do on television, which doesn't mesh well with the entire Hit Points model of combat. [/QUOTE]
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