FANTASY GROUNDS Goes 3D With TABLETOP CONNECT

Fantasy Grounds, the officially licensed D&D virtual tabletop software, has just acquired Tabletop Connect, a 3D virtual tabletop which was successfully Kickstarted a couple of years ago. "Tabletop Connect is a system-neutral 3D virtual tabletop that lets you connect with your friends to play role-playing games just like you’re around a real table. You play in a true 3D environment—with miniatures, terrain tiles, physics simulated dice, character sheets, and handouts—you can almost feel the dice in your hands." Already one of the big two VTTs (the other being Roll20), this looks like it'll take online virtual tabletop gaming to a whole new level.

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Here's the full press release:

I am pleased to announce that Tabletop Connect has been acquired by SmiteWorks USA, LLC, the developer of the industry leading Fantasy Grounds virtual tabletop. As part of this acquisition I will be joining the SmiteWorks team to accelerate the port of Fantasy Grounds to the Unity platform. "

Doug Davison, President and Co-Owner of SmiteWorks added, "We have a distinct vision of what virtual tabletops can and should look like over the coming years and how Smiteworks can accomplish those things with Fantasy Grounds. For that reason, we began porting the core engine for Fantasy Grounds to Unity so that we could streamline and enhance the experience for players and GM's alike and distribute it more easily across all platforms. We've been following the progress of Tabletop Connect since it launched on Kickstarter and we've been very impressed with what Carl has been able to produce as a one-man operation. He shares the same vision we do on many areas and brings a unique level of talent, passion and creativity that is very hard to find. After some great one-on-one discussions, we believe that together we can do more than we could working separately. Work has been progressing on the Unity rebuild for the last year and I am genuinely excited about how the addition of Carl to the team will allow us to speed up the completion of this project and provide additional enhancements to the resulting product. "

During the development of Tabletop Connect your feedback and support have been invaluable. This is a unique opportunity to contribute to the next generation of virtual tabletops and to deliver the experience that you deserve.

As a backer of Tabletop Connect, you should soon receive the details of the realignment to Fantasy Grounds and your options during this transition.

Sincerely, thanks again for all of your support and I look forward to you joining me on this exciting new adventure!

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Tabletop Connect is here. Fantasy Grounds is, of course, here.

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[Psikerlord#]

I'm glad to see stuff like this being developed for those who want it. I have transitioned back to "theatre of the mind" style combat and only use FG coz it looks nice, I can present pictures easily, and it's got dice!

Actually not true, I have started inputting very basic NPC monster data to make use of the combat tracker which speeds up initiative (which we roll at the start of every rounds). This is pretty much perfect for my setup already...

Though I would like better drawing tools, for the occasional map.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Yeah, it's way smaller than you'd imagine. Personally I think it would be insanely distracting to have stuff disappearing out of the FOV constantly.

Also, the Hololens, IIRC, is going to cost ~$1500.

You'd be better off just buying a GearVR and slapping some cameras on it for passthrough.

YMMV, but it sounds perfectly usable to me, on my tabletop. I guess we have different tolerances. I get nothing out of huge TV screens and gigantic movie theatres--to me they're all pretty much the same once I take a second to adjust.

I haven't seen a price estimate for Hololens, and again, $1500 is more than I was hoping for (although that price would make sense for a business-oriented device), but if I could make the software work I would gladly pay the $1500 anyway in order to be able to automate the real world. At that price I would probably not buy four sets for my gaming group, but I would still buy at least one.

 

[Raloc]

YMMV, but it sounds perfectly usable to me, on my tabletop. I guess we have different tolerances. I get nothing out of huge TV screens and gigantic movie theatres--to me they're all pretty much the same once I take a second to adjust.

I haven't seen a price estimate for Hololens, and again, $1500 is more than I was hoping for (although that price would make sense for a business-oriented device), but if I could make the software work I would gladly pay the $1500 anyway in order to be able to automate the real world. At that price I would probably not buy four sets for my gaming group, but I would still buy at least one.

Don't forget, that's just the device itself - you'd still need a decently hefty gaming PC to run it.

Also, I have to say, having worked on VR for all of this past year, you're probably underestimating how annoying the tiny FOV window is. Supremely. It actually kind of ruins the entire point of AR - which is to augment your entire field of vision in a seamless way with 3D objects.

Consider that your normal, no-eye-movement FOV is about 180. With eye movement, that goes up to about 240 ish. Now compare that to Hololens - 30x17.5 FOV. GearVR has about 90 (both dimensions).

Also consider that it wouldn't be like looking at a screen. It'd be more like having someone pass objects in front of a very small window in front of you.

As I mentioned though, a VR headset with passthrough cameras would get you the Hololens functionality, but with an actually usable FOV. And at a price that's not insane for what is actually pretty bad hardware (compared to other VR/AR offerings).

There're also a number of unsolved problems that make AR less attractive in general - e.g., rendering stuff so it's occluded or supported by real life objects, functioning (to a usable level at all) in bright rooms etc., so it probably won't behave how you imagine, with the 3D AR objects naturally interacting with the real world scene.

Instead, they'd just be kind of overlaying on top of stuff in a weird way. Not ideal

AR is far less mature than VR at the moment, and probably won't be to the place where it's useful for your use case for another 5-10 years, even if some AR hardware is released before then (because of the software problems, which are not easy to solve).

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Don't forget, that's just the device itself - you'd still need a decently hefty gaming PC to run it.*snip*

Why in the world would I buy a gaming PC to run my VTT application? That seems so utterly wrongheaded. Any application which requires a gaming PC is not an application that Hololens is going to be good for. But my laptop will suffice just fine for a VTT, which is what I'm interested in Hololens for.

Remember, my use case is, "Computer: place seven orcs randomly on this map, and put the PCs in standard formation here." That doesn't take a lot of computer power once Hololens has done the voice and visual processing for you. Then I'd need the ability to move virtual pieces around, to manage their HP, to set up multi-turn moves, and also the ability to create 3D maps in advance ("this encounter happens on the limbs of a 300' tall tree"). Lots of software development needed; little need for a fancy gaming PC though.

If you've been working in VR for the past year, that might explain why our perspectives are so different. I have little use for VR and that's not what I want Hololens support for. I want AR, and I want it for fairly simple tasks like the tasks I currently do with a whiteboard and my regular old human brain. But AR will do those tasks much, much better than a whiteboard will.

At the risk of beating a dead horse:

It actually kind of ruins the entire point of AR - which is to augment your entire field of vision in a seamless way with 3D objects.

That is not in any way the entire point of AR for me. All I need is a way to augment a portion of the real world with 3D objects generated by a computer. I couldn't care less whether the game board is still clearly visible in my field of vision while I am looking down at my gaming books or talking to the players. FOV is not entirely irrelevant, but it's far from "the entire point" of AR.

 

[Raloc]

Why in the world would I buy a gaming PC to run my VTT application? That seems so utterly wrongheaded. Any application which requires a gaming PC is not an application that Hololens is going to be good for. But my laptop will suffice just fine for a VTT, which is what I'm interested in Hololens for.

How do you think that stuff is going to be rendered? By wizards?

Hololens is basically a monitor, and all VR/AR applications require GPU due to having to render two viewports into the (VTT in your case) world - one for each eye.

Remember, my use case is, "Computer: place seven orcs randomly on this map, and put the PCs in standard formation here." That doesn't take a lot of computer power once Hololens has done the voice and visual processing for you.

Here's where you're going off track

The Hololens has zero processing capabilities. It's basically some glasses. You do absolutely need a computer to drive the rendering. And as with all AR/VR stuff, potatoes need not apply, which means a good PC gaming rig.

At the risk of beating a dead horse:

That is not in any way the entire point of AR for me. All I need is a way to augment a portion of the real world with 3D objects generated by a computer.

I am pointing out that Hololens is pretty abysmally bad as an AR experience, because it does not in fact "augment" your vision - just a tiny tiny window in the center.

 

[Uchawi]

I guess this would fill the market for pre-packaged content (adventures) that is run by a DM, or otherwise known as a "smart" dungeon because AI can only go so far. But I would prefer a 2D environment with endless possibilities to make maps, objects and tokens. Fantasy grounds has a long way just to meet the later. If it could seamlessly integrate the story line with the maps/objects/tokens then I would be using it a lot more.

To me 3D is just eye candy, with a host of limitations.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

How do you think that stuff is going to be rendered? By wizards?

Hololens is basically a monitor, and all VR/AR applications require GPU due to having to render two viewports into the (VTT in your case) world - one for each eye.

Here's where you're going off track

The Hololens has zero processing capabilities. It's basically some glasses. You do absolutely need a computer to drive the rendering. And as with all AR/VR stuff, potatoes need not apply, which means a good PC gaming rig.

That's not what Microsoft has been saying for the last year or so. It has a CPU and a GPU--it has to, or it would have to send all of those terabytes-per-second of data that it's collecting to your PC for processing. Here's an Engadget quote:

From http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/21/hololens-spec-rundown/

Because HoloLens is processing terabytes of data in real time, it needs more than your typical central and graphics processing units, according to Kipman. That's why Microsoft invented a holographic processing unit that's able to understand gestures, voice and spatially map the environment you're in, all without markers, cameras, phones, PCs or wires -- necessities for the likes of Oculus Rift and Gear VR. Granted, when we were able to spend time with a development kit, it was very much none of those things; you're required to wear a small, heat-generating computer around your neck, for instance. As our Senior Editor Ben Gilbert eloquently says in his hands-on piece, it's "like what Flavor Flav would do with a computer." This dev kit wasn't shown onstage because, well, it wouldn't have been nearly as impressive to see exposed wires, circuitry and a silicon weight around someone's neck.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I guess this would fill the market for pre-packaged content (adventures) that is run by a DM, or otherwise known as a "smart" dungeon because AI can only go so far. But I would prefer a 2D environment with endless possibilities to make maps, objects and tokens. Fantasy grounds has a long way just to meet the later. If it could seamlessly integrate the story line with the maps/objects/tokens then I would be using it a lot more.

To me 3D is just eye candy, with a host of limitations.

I think 3D models are fairly useless eye candy--but 3D terrain and maps would rock. I have all kinds of ideas for adventures which don't translate well to the whiteboards I draw them on, because it's too hard to render 3D as 2D. Vertical navigation is fun and exciting.

 

[Uchawi]

I think 3D models are fairly useless eye candy--but 3D terrain and maps would rock.

I agree. I believe it is a matter of learning to walk before you run. So provide a robust 2D environment, and then add the capability to extend it 3D. By then adding 3D characters, etc. would be icing on the cake for those that want to put in a lot of effort. But for me, a 2D environment is fine, as long as it can be done quick and easy.

 

[Raloc]

That's not what Microsoft has been saying for the last year or so. It has a CPU and a GPU--it has to, or it would have to send all of those terabytes-per-second of data that it's collecting to your PC for processing.

Honestly that sounds like marketing speak to me - "terabytes of data" for a 30x17.5 FOV low resolution panel is a stretch to say the least. I seriously doubt it pushes even as many pixels as the older Oculus Rift dev kits - it's not some sort of mysterious "holographic processor" (that's nonsense marketing speak). Even the consumer Rift only pushes a few HUNDRED MB/s, not GB/s and certainly not terabytes. Not even *close*.

If they do include any sort of CPU/GPU, it certainly wont' be more powerful than a PC gaming rig. That makes zero sense and defies basic physics.


In any case, I will say that Hololens pretty much won't do what you're after, and probably no AR device for the next 5+ years will, due to the associated physical limits on AR lenses, software problems that are nigh-unsolveable in real time with <10ms per frame etc.