Fantasy world maps and real world geology

[fusangite]

See, the first part of your proposition changes the conclusion. You've specifically stated that we are considering a situation that happens DURING THE GAME. That can mean that the rules of the game are just the rules of the game, not the rules of the world.

I think that worlds where the laws of cause and effect are completely different, depending on whether the PCs are watching are worlds of postmodern, solipsistic excess that I want no part of.

While I agree that a physics is possible that works one way when a special person or special people are watching is possible and differently when they are not, I think that without a substantial justification, such worlds don't hang together or permit suspension of disbelief. For suspension of disbelief to be possible in such a world, there needs to be an explanation of why the PCs are so special that the very laws of cause and effect are altered by their mere presence. If I ran such a game, a big part of it would be about the PCs figuring out or in some way addressing why the universe operated by one set of laws when they were there and a completely different set when they were not. Is the universe the PCs' dream? Are they really minor deities who don't know it? Some kind of explanation along those lines would be necessary for such a universe to be anything other than a pile of incoherent solipsism.

The world may have its own set of physical laws, real-world physics or otherwise, that are simply too complicated to model with a ruleset and so the game rules are used as an abstraction.

Applied physics is about creating simplified abstractions of more complex rules. We use use Newtonian gravitation in our day-to-day modeling even though we know that it is an approximation, and one inferior to Einstein's approximation at that. We do so out of concern for practicality, speed, etc. Game rules are no different.

All practical physics, like all game rules, are convenient approximations generally reflective of a model. The question is: what model are they reflecting?

I consider a D&D game to be like an action movie or certain sci-fi TV series. The things that happen on-screen are anomalies, not determinants of that world's fundamental reality.

My favourite moments in sci-fi and fantasy are the moments when what is going on on screen is made consistent with an overarching reality rather than being an independent mini-universe operating orthogonally. Buffy is a good example: the characters' job in the show is to investigate what is going on around them and draw conclusions from it and so, over time, they notice their reality is working a little differently. They remark on how Dawn seems to get into trouble on Tuesdays. Minor characters remark on the high fatality rates of their high school sports teams. The school paper published obituaries.

TV shows where what happens on screen is totally inconsistent with the universe in which it is situated are shows I turn off.

When I watched Buffy, I didn't try to ascertain the impact of magic on physics; I assumed that the world was like our with a lot of extra stuff tacked on, because technology seemed to work just as it does in our world.

I think it is a mistake to assume that our physics is the only possible system of physics capable of producing our tech.

Anyway, I said I was going to retire from this thread so now I really will this time. Sorry to stomp off but I am feeling very repetitive.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Is the universe the PCs' dream? Are they really minor deities who don't know it?

"Hey Bloodstorm, why is it that of all the crazy monsters in the world, we almost always run into the ones that we can beat after a tough fight, no matter how much more skilled we've gotten? I mean, what happened to all the goblin raiders that used to attack us when we were riding somewhere?"
"I don't know. Maybe it's something about us. Did you know that Moonbow has three times the wealth of any of the wizards that she considers her peers?"
"Huh. And why do you think it is that we sometimes just know we should trust the new guy who wants to join us. Is that a sign from the gods?"
"Might be. But the new guys are always so odd, aren't they? Weird skills that we've never heard of. And they're always just as powerful as us, only where were they the last 10 times the kingdom needed saving?"
"And don't you find our luck a little extraordinary? Aren't there times when you were sure you were done for and then felt like you were given a second chance?"
"Yeah, I wonder if that happens to everybody or just to us."
"How about that time we were shipwrecked and lost everything, only to find a whole hoard of stuff in that abandoned crypt that just happened to be on that island?"
"It's almost like someone's looking out for us, making sure we stay powerful."
"A good thing to, because I was about to kill myself."
"Well, if you had, I'm sure somebody else would have appeared on that island to take your place."

Now THIS, when characters recognize the weirdness and comment on it (like Buffy characters noticing that Dawn gets in trouble on Tuesdays) seems to be postmodernism to me. Could be funny for a short time, I suppose.

 

[Hussar]

While I agree that a physics is possible that works one way when a special person or special people are watching is possible and differently when they are not, I think that without a substantial justification, such worlds don't hang together or permit suspension of disbelief. For suspension of disbelief to be possible in such a world, there needs to be an explanation of why the PCs are so special that the very laws of cause and effect are altered by their mere presence. If I ran such a game, a big part of it would be about the PCs figuring out or in some way addressing why the universe operated by one set of laws when they were there and a completely different set when they were not. Is the universe the PCs' dream? Are they really minor deities who don't know it? Some kind of explanation along those lines would be necessary for such a universe to be anything other than a pile of incoherent solipsism.

But, RAW specifically says this. XP awards are for PC's and NPC's, not for the general populace.

Or do your towns level up after every tornado passes through?

There are no rules in RAW requiring PC's to sleep. Nothing. Not one rule. So, do our PC's need to sleep or not?