Favored Enemy hypothetical

[Hawkeye]

The text for the Favored Enemy states "Due to his extensive study of his chosen type of foe and training in the proper techniques for combating such creatures...". Now this means that Favored Enemy is more than just a character's hatred for their favored enemy.

So, lets say we have a sterotypical Ranger who hates Orcs. His party has been taking on a wizard. This wizard decides to play with the Ranger a bit and takes some of his human minions and cast an illusion over them to make them appear to look like orcs. These human disgused as orcs attack the Ranger. Does he get his bonuses?

Hawkeye

 

[nick012000]

No. However, if he cast a Polymorph spell (or any other spell that alters a creature's type), he would.

 

[shilsen]

No. If they're really orcs, he gets it, not otherwise.

In fact, that would probably be one way he'd realize that they're not really orcs.

 

[Hawkeye]

No. However, if he cast a Polymorph spell (or any other spell that alters a creature's type), he would.

So Polymorph is powerful enough to "download" the culture, tactics, fighting styles etc... that orcs would use into the newly polymorphed character, even those who retain their intelligence, wisdom and charisma scores? The Ranger's ability is based on its studies of its enemy, not just the form the enemy takes. If an illusion won't work (which I agree it shouldn't) than polymorph shouldn't either.

Hawkeye

 

[Hawkeye]

No. If they're really orcs, he gets it, not otherwise.

In fact, that would probably be one way he'd realize that they're not really orcs.

I figure for the few few rounds, he may even have a penalty, since he may be basing his initial attacks and defenses on what he is expecting. Once he realizes something is wrong, he loses the penalties.

Hawkeye

 

[moritheil]

The Ranger's ability is based on its studies of its enemy, not just the form the enemy takes.

Flavor-wise, sure, that reasoning is sound. But the bonus works against all members of the race, even abnormal ones. RAW, a normal orc raised apart from other orcs - say, by humans or by goblins - will still suffer. By your reasoning, he shouldn't. He doesn't embrace orcish culture. And what about an orc who does embrace orcish culture but trained with a hobgoblin sword master, or an instructor from some other race? Where exactly do you draw the line?

If an illusion won't work (which I agree it shouldn't) than polymorph shouldn't either.

And here again RAW seems to disagree. As long as the magic changes the type of the creature, Favored Enemy will work.

I can accept that you do things differently in your campaign for the sake of personal believability, but I think that RAW it only matters on the type of the creature. Either it matches or it doesn't.

 

[Folly]

This is why I always thought of Favored Enemy as more a biology thing. Since the bonus you do get are all things that make since in the physical sense and things that make sense from an individual you don't. For example, you get damage bonuses. These can be derived strictly from knowing the more vulnerable spots. Meanwhile you don't get bonuses to hit. This makes senses since it varies from orc to orc how they fight. This logic works until you get to the bluff and sense motive bonuses.

 

[Ferrum]

Polymorph would work, illusion would not.

It is from careful study of the enemy, but does not specify his culture or their training techniques, just his own. The favored enemy bonus could relate to an orc having an exposed tendon near the back of their calf, or a lack of ability to guard their midsection due to skeletal structure and musculature, in other words, anatomical weaknesses that may be exploited.

A polymorph spell would convey these anatomical changes, where an illusion would not.

I would possibly confer the favored enemy bonus to the ranger's will save to see through the illusion. He might immediately realize that the illusion's gait is all wrong, or that they're carrying their weapons higher than would be comfortable for an orc.

 

[Bad Paper]

I would possibly confer the favored enemy bonus to the ranger's will save to see through the illusion. He might immediately realize that the illusion's gait is all wrong, or that they're carrying their weapons higher than would be comfortable for an orc.

yoinked

 

[Hypersmurf]

A polymorph spell would convey these anatomical changes, where an illusion would not.

On the other hand, a ranger with Favored Enemy (Animal) gets no bonus against a wildshaped druid, since even though the druid has the anatomical changes, his Type remains unchanged.

-Hyp.