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Feast For Crows rocks so far!(small spoilers)

Ulrik

First Post
Eosin the Red said:
Little Robert just needs to be strangled.

I give Little Robert exactly 0% chance of surviving the next year. Everyone knows how sickly he is, and Littlefinger has set it up so that he will still have control of the Vale through Sansa and Harry. Even if his shaking sickness doesn't do him in, what's stopping LF from slipping a little something into his food? Who would suspect a thing?

(Or does LF prefer to rule through Robert?)
 

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Eosin the Red

First Post
Ulrik said:
I give Little Robert exactly 0% chance of surviving the next year. Everyone knows how sickly he is, and Littlefinger has set it up so that he will still have control of the Vale through Sansa and Harry. Even if his shaking sickness doesn't do him in, what's stopping LF from slipping a little something into his food? Who would suspect a thing?

(Or does LF prefer to rule through Robert?)


He'll wait til Sansa and her new beau are "wedded & bedded." Then our snotty little tyrant is gonna learn to fly!
 


Methinkus

First Post
Stannis vs Varys

SPOILERS!!









Spoilers. . . . i guess only kinda . . .














Does anyone else think that in the next book the Spider is going to apear on the Wall? Varys talks to Tyrion in one of the old books about how much he hates Magic, and says that if Stannis is using sorcery to acheive his ends Varys will do everything he can to kill him. Since we havent seen him in Kings Landing in an entire book I think its very likely that he has decided to head north for the winter.

Given the story he told Tyrion about how and why he was castrated, I think we all understand why he hates magic so much. Hearing just that one story about his past made the eunich one of my favourite characters - along with Rob and Kahl Drogo, :( - so watch out Red Witch, the Spider is a much more capable plotter that Stannis' old Maester! If im right about this then it is going to be one great showdown!
 

Starman

Adventurer
Methinkus said:
Does anyone else think that in the next book the Spider is going to apear on the Wall? Varys talks to Tyrion in one of the old books about how much he hates Magic, and says that if Stannis is using sorcery to acheive his ends Varys will do everything he can to kill him. Since we havent seen him in Kings Landing in an entire book I think its very likely that he has decided to head north for the winter.

Given the story he told Tyrion about how and why he was castrated, I think we all understand why he hates magic so much. Hearing just that one story about his past made the eunich one of my favourite characters - along with Rob and Kahl Drogo, :( - so watch out Red Witch, the Spider is a much more capable plotter that Stannis' old Maester! If im right about this then it is going to be one great showdown!

I don't think Varys is done manipulating things in the south. If he's not in King's Landing or somewhere close, then he has probably gone to Daenerys to help her out. Remember that he is a Targaryen loyalist.
 

Finished

Well I finished today and have some observations and some questions.

I Liked it and enjoyed it, but it was a small disappointment. It feels like half a book, like not much really happened. I think whats most dissapointing is the next book takes place at the same time as this one, so none of this books cliff-hangers will be answered.

Another thing, I think Martin is becoming a little predictable.I think its always safe to assume the worst possible character will always win:
Did anyone doubt that Euron would win the vote, or Littlefinger would sway the Lords Declarent, or Cersei would get her way (til the end)








Another problem I have that I think others mentioned:
We don't see anyone die in the book. Come on Sandor, Gregor, Beric, Loras, Davos. It ruins the suprise if he brings them back later, and leaves us wanting if he doesn't.






One question, Since I missed the whole Alleris thing; I dont understand how would Measter Aemon know about the sphinx?


BUt don't get me wrong, I love this series and will continue to read and wait. I gues I'll past the time with the GoT RPG i just picked up.

Bastion
 

CrusaderX

First Post
I finished the book over the weekend as well. I enjoyed it, and the pages did turn quickly, but not quite as much as the past three books. I'm eagerly awaiting ADWD, though.

I did't catch the AFFC easter eggs mentioned in this thread. They make the book better, IMO, especially the identity of the alchemist. I really shoud have realized who it was.

One question about the book, though, since I may have missed something:

Were all of the accusations against Margarey false? They were simply made up to trap Cersei, right?
 

Steel_Wind

Legend
The accusations against Margaery and the Injuries to Sir Loras

I believe they were made up to trap Cersei, yes.

My theory is as follows:

Margaery was not acting when she was first told what happened to Loras. Aurane Waters tells Cersei the tale and smiles when Cersei insists on telling Margaery. He smiles because they have her.

Margaery was told by Cersei and believed it - her initial reaction was genuine as were her tears.

Read the chapter again: that same night after Margaery is told by Cersei about what supposedly happened to Loras - Lady Merryweather leaves Cersei's bedchamber and goes to spend the evening with Margaery and her maid to "comfort them" instead. It is then that Lady Marryweather tells Margaery the truth to "comfort her" and bring Margaery into the Queen of Thorns' machinations.

Look back on all the information that Cersei is given regarding Margaery and her virginity, the Blue Singer, who she sees, etc. It all stems from information Lady Merryweayther gives Cersei. Cersei's "independent investigations" are all undertaken only after the seed is first planted by Taena. It is Lady Merryweather who remember's Renly's erection that wedding night, that Margaery is no virgin, etc.. Lady Merryweather also tells Cersei that Pycelle has been spending a great deal of time with Margaery as well - and Cersei walks right into it and asks Pycelle what - where he confesses: "I provide Her Grace with sleeping draghts and ... other sorts of potions."

Pycelle was set up and the door is opened - and Cersei walks right into it.

Later in open court after Margaery is arrested, Cersei asks Pycelle to go to Baelor's Sept to verify her virginity, instead of going herself to speak with the High Septon. Pycelle goes white and admits to the moon tea in open court.

That's all it takes - the council is dissolved and off Cersei marches. But as she does, Lord Merryweather and Aurane Waters immediately move to justify launching of the fleet. An accident? Come on! Read it again!

Cersei readily agrees. (And off Aurane Waters goes to get the fleet battle ready and cast off).

The next day, before Cersei goes to the High Septon, it is Lady Merryweather who asks about what happens if Margaery asks for a trial by combat. Taena is ready to suggest the answer to Cersei if our Golden Fool fails to see it - but Cersei takes the bait and off to the High Septon she goes. But before she goes she once again invites Lady Merryweather's son to court - and once again is declined.

GRRM is telling us - once more - that Taena is a traitor.

Margaery plays her part and reminds Cersei that Loras is hurt. That done, Margaery tells the "vile, scheming, evil bitch" to leave.

The High Septon does not confront Cersei with Osney Kettleblack until after Cersei has said that it must be a member of the King's Guard who must defend the Queen. When she says that - they have her. The next thing he says is that Cersei may not leave.

The same timorous Pycelle who confessed to giving Margaery moon tea is shortly thereafter busy running the kingdom and calling for Kevan Lannister within an hour of Cersei's arrest by the High Septon. The fleet which was readied for battle by the comments of Lord Merryweather and Aurane Waters is off to sea and the defence of Highgarden.

Cersei was played the entire time - and Loras' "injuries" are an integral part of it. Without Loras being injured, any trial by combat would go in Cersei's favor. They played her for a fool the entire time. Who is "they"? The Queen of Thorns and Littlefinger.

Why is Qyburn let in to see Cersei? So that she does not suspect the whole of the truth, else she might puzzle it out and recognize Loras is not injured - and see her one route of escape. So Qyburn tells Cersei what they want her to believe: that Aurane Waters has gone off to be a pirate or to Stannis (anywhere but Highgarden) and the Merryweathers - true friends of Cersei that they are - have now fled the city to avoid the wrath of Cersei's enemies ascendant.

Cersei, more the fool, thinks that Taena fleeing to Longtable is a sign of her loyalty and a stroke of good fortune. She sees what they want her to see and misses all the clues to the truth.

So, to recap: what's in it for the QoT?

1 - She must preserve Margaery from Cersei;
2- She must get rid of her without provoking the Lannisters or deposing Tommen. This is vital because the urgent need is for the Royal Fleet to save Highgarden *right now* which stands exposed to the Ironborn. All of this must be done in such a way as to avoid a war with the Lannisters.

In order to do this, she must use the High Septon - a man who cannot be bought. To do this, she must risk Margaery (without really risking her).

And so Lady Taena Merryweather and the Kettleblacks (and through them, LF) play their game.

It's all about this: Get Cersei to say to the High Septon that the Queen must rely upon the Kingsguard to defend her against a charge and with the Blue Singer's tale - Cersei is damned. Osney Kettleblack sings a tale as well? So much the better, but the Blue Singer was the intended informant. Osney Kettleblack was just a bonus.

As long as Loras is "hurt", Cersei is deposed without risking war with the Lannisters.

So what is in it for Littlefinger?

As it turns out, what's in it for Petyr Baelish is nothing less than the Rule of the Seven Kingdoms.

It was Jaime's suggestion of settling on Baelish as the perfect Hand to appease the Tyrells that got me thinking...

"If Cersei can be put aside, Ser Kevan may agree to serve as Tommen's Hand. And if not, well, the Seven Kingdoms did not lack for able men. Forley Prester would make a good choice, or Roland Crakehall. If someone other than a westerman was needed to appease the Tyrells, there was always Mathis Rowan...or even Petyr Baelish. Littlefinger was as amiable as he was clever, but too lowborn to threaten any of the great lords, with no sword of his own. The perfect Hand." - Jaime Lannister, AFFC, page 667.

This leads me to believe it may have been the QoT & LF behind this.

If LF thinks that the only thing that stands between him and the Rule of the Realm is Ser Kevan Lannister - we might have a very good idea what happened to Ser Kevan whilst travelling in the treacherous riverlands...

Ser Kevan's "vanishing" may well be the work of LF removing the one obstacle between him being named Hand of the King.
 
Last edited:

Eosin the Red

First Post
I think Steel Wind has the gist of but I think the participants and provocateurs might be a little different. I also don't think that everything is quite that nice and tidy.

The main problem I see with the tidines is that the High Septon is a total wild card right now. I think things are headed for something much uglier in the near future and that at the core of it we will find the Septon, his sparrows, and his new swords. Anybody who doesn't see what a dangerous man he has become is a moron and I doubt the QoT is a moron (nor is Jaime, Kevan, or Varys). The only moron who thinks they can keep the bottle corked is Cersei.

I think Kevan and Pycelle (and maybe Varys) are the two main instigators. Loras, Taena, Longwater, and Magery are just the pawns.

Overall, it is still a good theory and it is obvious that SOMETHING is happening behind the scenes and that something involves Taena.
 

nakia

First Post
Ulrik said:
I give Little Robert exactly 0% chance of surviving the next year. Everyone knows how sickly he is, and Littlefinger has set it up so that he will still have control of the Vale through Sansa and Harry. Even if his shaking sickness doesn't do him in, what's stopping LF from slipping a little something into his food? Who would suspect a thing?

(Or does LF prefer to rule through Robert?)

More spoliers:

I think the killing of Robert has already started. IIRC, the Eyrie's Masester has been giving Robert some potion/medicine for the shaking sickness that is supposed to be used very sparingly, but Robert's been taking it fairly regularly. Alayane/Sansa convinces the Maester to give him more of the stuff before they descend from the Eyrie. The Maester agrees, but then says Robert can't have any more of the potion for at least six months.


I'm interested to see how things will play out now that the Church has been rearmed. I'm also curious to learn what's up with the Citadel. Aemon's prophecy about the sphinx may refer to the Citadel itself, not specifically about Alleras. Now we have two new factions at play in Westeros.
 

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