Feat pickin' time!

[Ryujin]

He's MCed, not Hybrid.

The PHB says "when you damage", but I think it's the default after they did some revisions. I could be wrong. The hybrid rules just codify it.

If it isn't the case, though, what is the benefit of a Pact Weapon?

If it's MC, then you should be able to apply Curse at will. "If you hit a Cursed enemy with an attack, you deal extra damage." The current Compendium listing doesn't specify that it be a Warlock attack, though the Hybrid rules do. Probably in order to avoid unwanted and unbalancing interaction.

The value of a Pact Weapon is in its ability to be used as an implement and in the additional riders it has. A Pact Blade Dagger is a damned fine minion popper.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I second that the "only on warlock attacks" is only for the hybrid rules, not generally. Many (most?) class benefits are so modified for hybrids, to prevent synergies which would make those class benefits better for a hybrid character than for a non-hybrid. For example, the fighter hybrid can only mark with fighter attacks - otherwise, by hybriding into a class with lots of area attack powers, the fighter-whatever would be a better defender than a pure fighter because he could mark a whole lot more.

However, the hybriding rules don't affect the rules for the class - for example, a dragonborn fighter can still mark enemies with its dragonsbreath, a basic melee attack, or a power aquired via multiclassing.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The value of a Pact Weapon is in its ability to be used as an implement and in the additional riders it has. A Pact Blade Dagger is a damned fine minion popper.

Pact weapons specifically state they do damage if they hit- why say that if it isn't some kind of exception?

Or is the exception that they break the 1/rd curse damage limitation?

 

[Ryujin]

Pact weapons specifically state they do damage if they hit- why say that if it isn't some kind of exception?

Or is the exception that they break the 1/rd curse damage limitation?

They don't get around the 1/rnd curse damage. They do this:

"When a creature you have cursed with your Warlock’s Curse makes a melee attack against you, deal damage to the creature equal to the pact blade’s enhancement bonus."

That's why they make great minion poppers.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Which pact weapon are you talking about? I haven't seen such language in any of the ones I just looked at... none of the ones on the compendium specifically say that you get to apply your curse damage to attacks with that weapon/implement. The only thing in common between them is that they all opperate as a warlock implement, though some do have an effect when you are hit by a creature subject to your curse.

But I guess that was already explained above.

 

[Ryujin]

Which pact weapon are you talking about? I haven't seen such language in any of the ones I just looked at... none of the ones on the compendium specifically say that you get to apply your curse damage to attacks with that weapon/implement. The only thing in common between them is that they all opperate as a warlock implement, though some do have an effect when you are hit by a creature subject to your curse.

But I guess that was already explained above.

Pact Bade - PHB1.

They don't need to say that they apply Curse damage, because the class feature Warlock's Curse states it. A melee attack is an attack. Warlock's Curse says that if you hit a cursed foe with an attack, you can apply your Curse damage. You don't have to use a Pact weapon to take advantage of this; it's the basic mechanics of Curse.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I don't have my books with me, but here's how I transcribed Pact Hammers for my DM in an email:

Pact Hammer AV p74: Property- functions as Warlock implement for Dwarves (do not apply weapon proficiency to Att rolls for warlock powers); Property- deal your Curse damage when you hit a Cursed foe with this weapon.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

@Ryujin - I realise that. I was trying to understand Dannyalcatraz'a comments about pact weapons and curse damage. - and your argument was basically the one I was trying to make.

@Dannyalcatraz - not sure where you are getting that from. The actual wordihng of Pact Hammer from the compendium:

Pact Hammer Level 2+ Common

This dark steel hammer is the prized possession of any dwarven warlock who wishes to wield weapon and magic with equal effectiveness.
Lvl 2+1520 gp Lvl 17+465,000 gp Lvl 7+22,600 gp Lvl 22+5325,000 gp Lvl 12+313,000 gp Lvl 27+61,625,000 gp
Weapon: Hammer
Enhancement Bonus: attack rolls and damage rolls
Critical: +1d6 damage per plus
Property

If you are a dwarf, this hammer functions as a warlock implement for you (but do not apply the weapon’s proficiency bonus to attack rolls for warlock powers).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

... not sure where you are getting that from. The actual wordihng of Pact Hammer from the compendium:

Now, i dont know what "Compendium" you're talking about- there are a few in 4Ed, but now that I have my AV1 in front of me, I can say what I posted was nearly verbatim. Here is that particular clause actually verbatim.

AV1 p 74
Pact Hammer
<snip>
Property: When you hit a target affected by your Warlock's Curse with this weapon, you deal your extra curse damage against that target.

It would seem there was some revision along the way, probably to avoid that interpretation I mentioned upthread...and apparently to standardize them.

Note: the original version also has a +1 version that is lvl 2 and 520gp...

Now I'm curious as to how my DM will respond to my latest eMail. We got some treasure last session, none of it was on my "wish list", but there were some Gloves of Piercing. I asked if I could engineer a swap for a Pact Hammer. Thing is, I use the books, he uses the books...and has a DDI account.

 

[Kynn]

It would seem there was some revision along the way, probably to avoid that interpretation I mentioned upthread...and apparently to standardize them.

Note: the original version also has a +1 version that is lvl 2 and 520gp...

Now I'm curious as to how my DM will respond to my latest eMail. We got some treasure last session, none of it was on my "wish list", but there were some Gloves of Piercing. I asked if I could engineer a swap for a Pact Hammer. Thing is, I use the books, he uses the books...and has a DDI account.

Yeah, there was an update/errata that removed the second "Property" line from the pact hammer.

(In January 2009.)