Feat: Reflexive fighting?

[Abstraction]

We just got the word on static defenses and how some will be used. It mentions that any time you would need to touch a character, you roll against his Reflex instead of his Armor. I can see some characters, rogues especially, that have a higher Reflex than Armor and are thus harder to hit with a touch spell than to chop with a sword. So this led me to the thought that for those characters, it would actually be better to force opponents to roll against the Reflex. These characters dodge out of the way of attacks instead of counting on armor to protect them. What do you think the odds are there will be a feat, or class ability or something, that will let a person use his Reflex for defense in place of Armor if his Reflex is higher?

 

[SeRiAlExPeRiMeNtS]

We just got the word on static defenses and how some will be used. It mentions that any time you would need to touch a character, you roll against his Reflex instead of his Armor. I can see some characters, rogues especially, that have a higher Reflex than Armor and are thus harder to hit with a touch spell than to chop with a sword. So this led me to the thought that for those characters, it would actually be better to force opponents to roll against the Reflex. These characters dodge out of the way of attacks instead of counting on armor to protect them. What do you think the odds are there will be a feat, or class ability or something, that will let a person use his Reflex for defense in place of Armor if his Reflex is higher?

My gues is that the AC will be derivated from the reflex defense, so it will never be lower than the reflex defense...

 

[Alnag]

My gues is that the AC will be derivated from the reflex defense, so it will never be lower than the reflex defense...

Exactly. I think AC will be Reflex + Armor bonus.

 

[BryonD]

If true that almost certainly means that there is now a level based addition to AC.

 

[Lackhand]

One can hope, yeah.

 

[Alnag]

If true that almost certainly means that there is now a level based addition to AC.

Which make sense as well. If there will be less "magical item bonus to AC effect" and level based addition to BAB.

 

[Remathilis]

I wonder if it will use SAGA's scales...

Bab: 1:1, 3:4, or 1:2 (depending on class)
Fort: 10 + Char Level + Con Mod + Class Bonus (+0 - +3, depending on class, use highest value)
Ref: 10 + Char Level + Dex Mod + Class Bonus
Will: 10 + Char Level + Dex Mod + Class Bonus
AC: 10 + Either Char Level or Bab + Dex Mod + Armor + Shield
Weapon Damage: 1/2 Char Level
Skills: 1/2 Char Level +5 (if Trained) +5 (if Focused)

So a First Level Fighter might look something like this:

Dweedle Dee (human fighter 1, LG)
Str: 15, Dex: 13, Con: 14, Int: 10, Wis:12, Cha: 8
Bab: +1 HP: 32 AC: 18 (+1 level/bab, +1 Dex, +4 Scale, +2 Shield)
Fort: 14, Ref: 12, Will: 11 (assuming class bonus +2/+1/+0)
Init: +6, Speed 6 squares
Skills: Init +6, Climb +7, Ride +6 (Speak: Common)
Feats: Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
Talent: Supreme Disarm (I made this up)
Gear: Longsword, Scalemail, Large Shield, Adventurer's Kit, 10 gp

Nice, small and clean stat block there. Lets see if I'm right.

 

[A'koss]

Just a couple clarifications...

I wonder if it will use SAGA's scales...

Bab: 1:1, 3:4, or 1:2 (depending on class)

You'll note that there is no 1:2 BAB (at least with any of the base classes) in Saga. And with a 30 level game in D&D I'm all but certain we won't see the BAB disparities we see in 3e.

AC: 10 + Either Char Level or Bab + Dex Mod + Armor + Shield

In Saga, you either apply your character level bonus or armor bonus, not both. But AC is an interesting case with D&D because of it's (at least current) love for magical armor. Using the Saga rules, a 23rd level fighter would have an AC 33... buck naked. Doning Full Plate +5 and hefting a Shield +5 would actually bring him down to an AC 30, unless he had a feat or talent to offset this.

Now, there is nothing wrong with the concept of being so skilled that you're just better off unencumbered, regardless of how good the armor is. But I have a feeling that D&D will take a different slant and continue to encourage the use of magical armor, even if it won't be your only option. In IH, they get around this quandary by having armor grant DR (though shields still grand Def. bonuses). I don't see D&D going that route but it will be interesting to see if wearing armor allows you to continue to have a portion of your class bonus apply to AC or vice versa (as one soldier's talent allows).

Weapon Damage: 1/2 Char Level

IIRC, WotC said that they weren't going this route for weapon damage... I think they're going to offer more in the way of Bot9S combat maneuvers (all classes have "powers" now) and such...

Skills: 1/2 Char Level +5 (if Trained) +5 (if Focused)

I did hear somewhere that they aren't going mirror what Saga does here entirely and get the feeling that we'll be seeing slightly different numbers...

 

[BryonD]

You'll note that there is no 1:2 BAB (at least with any of the base classes) in Saga. And with a 30 level game in D&D I'm all but certain we won't see the BAB disparities we see in 3e.

Yeah, I think you are right. For me, I'd rather see a wider disparity. I'd be perfectly happy with a 1/4 or less BAB for Wizards. Just build attack bonuses into spells where needed and allow for either multiclassing and/or some other build options for the more physically capable wizards.

But, I see no reason to expect that. And it hasn't hurt my 3X games, so I imagine I'll get over it here as well.

 

[BryonD]

I did hear somewhere that they aren't going mirror what Saga does here entirely and get the feeling that we'll be seeing slightly different numbers...

They said somewhere in the SW previews that the skill system there was designed to capture the feel of the movies. Specifically, they mentioned that every character was able to do whatever they need when the chips were down.

They also stated in at least different places that 4E skills will be different than SWSE skills. But they didn't say anything about what those differences would be.