Fencing Classes/Feats

[Androrc]

I know of the Swashbuckler base class (Complete Warrior), Arcane Duelist (Random Encounter article series), Bladesinger (Complete Warrior) and Duelist (Dungeon Master's Guide v.3.5) prestige classes and the Weapon Finesse feat (Player's Handbook v.3.5).

Are there other classes or feats appropriate for using rapier or rapierlike weapons in 3rd edition or Pathfinder?

 

[Dandu]

Bard
Rogue
Dashing Swordsman

 

[Empirate]

...
Dashing Swordsman

You want to look into the Einhander feat (Complete Adventurer, IIRC), which gives you several new options if you fight with a light weapon one-handed. Also, there's a tactical feat in Complete Warrior which allows the use of a one-handed weapon plus waving about a cloak or cape to parry and distract the enemy (historically accurate, in spite of the silly imagery). Complete Champion has War Devotion, which allows you to take less penalties for more gain when fighting defensively or using Combat Expertise. Since fighting defensively is more or less the schtick of one-handed fencing, might as well get the most out of it. It's possible to get huge AC this way. Complete Adventurer also has a feat which provides a slight damage boost (+1d6 or so) when fighting defensively.

However, you also want to obtain good damage output. If all you have is a high AC, most enemies will quickly learn to just ignore you, since you're not all that threatening AND hard to take down quickly. For this I heartily recommend using Tome of Battle! Maneuvers are often standard action attacks, so using a one-handed light weapon doesn't hurt as much, and will provide a nice damage boost or other bonus. With your free hand, you can even initiate Setting Sun throws. A Warblade base would probably be best where pure damage output and tanking ability is concerned, but Swordsage allows the most diverse tricks, and gets excellent AC in light armor.

If you don't want to go into Tome of Battle, may I recommend a Rogue 4/Swashbuckler 16 with the Daring Outlaw feat? Gets all the sneak attack of a Rogue but much better BAB and HP. When relying on a bunch of extra damage dice, it'd be best to go for two weapons, though, so you can get in devastating full attacks. Rapier plus (defending) dagger, maybe? Stylish and historically accurate.
Scout 4/Ranger 16 with the Swift Hunter and Improved Skirmish feats would be another way to obtain high precision damage output and good BAB. Skirmish helps out with AC as well, and you keep that "mobile fighter" feel. Two weapons are recommended for this, as well as Travel Devotion (for moving as a swift action) or a level of Lion Totem Barbarian (for Pounce).

 

[Trouvere]

Besides what has already been said, PHB2 has the feat Driving Attack which allows the wielder of a piercing weapon to carry out a special sort of bull rush as a full round action. You have to be at least a 14th level Fighter 4 to take it.

Einhander and the silly cloak feat, Combat Cloak Expert, are both found in PHB2.

If you're a swashbuckling type, successfully pulling off Elusive Target's Diverting Defense (CW) or Combat Panache's Fortuitous Tumble (PHB2) is enormously satisfying, I would think.

Effects that trigger on critical hits are more relevant to the wielder of a (keen) rapier than to most, and even more so to an Arcane Duelist 7. There is the feat Telling Blow which might be of interest to anyone with sneak attack.

I own Tome of Battle but am not familiar with it; Shadow Blade allows adding Dex to damage, but not with rapiers. Is there a way to get Dex to damage with a rapier?

 

[Dandu]

I'd go for a Bard based fencing build myself. Maybe Bard 8/Arcane Duelist3/Swiftblade9, using Snowflake Wardance for Cha to attack. Works better with a Str based build that uses Power Attack, through, due to the AC's third level ability. When you Power Attack with a weapon wielded in 2 hands (say, a longsword), you gain 2 damage for every point subtracted from the attack roll (capped, of course by your BAB)... and the Arcane Duelist can take points off of damage to add to attack, which means you net a free amount of damage up to your BAB. And there's no reason not to PA up to your BAB now since you effectively get rid of the penalty.

 

[Dandu]

Rogue 3 (Penetrating Strike ACF)/ Swashbuckler 3 (Arcane Stunt: Blur)/Fighter 2 (Hit and Run ACF)/ Rogue 12

32 point buy stats:
Str: 10
Dex: 16+5 = 21
Con: 14
Int: 16
Wis: 10
Cha: 10
BAB: +16/+11/+5
Base saves: Fort: +11, Ref: +10, Will: +6

Sneak Attack: 7d6+20

Penetrating Strike (Dungeonscape): deal 1/2 Sneak Attack damage to target normally immune if flanked in exchange for trapsense.
Arcane Stunt (CM): Gain an SLA from the following list: blur, expeditious retreat, feather fall, jump, spider climb. Casting time is 1 swift action (immediate action in the case of feather fall) and duration is 1 round. Ability useable 1+Int mod times per day. CL is equal to swashbuckler level.
Hit and Run (Drow of the Underdark): +2 to Initiative and dex to damage as a competence bonus on weapon rolls in exchange for losing heavy armor and tower shield proficiency.

Feats:
1. Craven
2. Weapon Finesse
3. Combat Reflexes
6. Einhander
7. Expeditious Dodge
8. Combat Expertise
9. Combat Cloak Expert
12: Combat Panache
15: Staggering Strike
18: Savvy Rogue

Rogue Special Abilities:
Crippling Strike (Ex): A rogue with this ability can sneak attack opponents with such precision that her blows weaken and hamper them. An opponent damaged by one of her sneak attacks also takes 2 points of Strength damage. Ability points lost to damage return on their own at the rate of 1 point per day for each damaged ability.
Skill Mastery: The rogue becomes so certain in the use of certain skills that she can use them reliably even under adverse conditions. Upon gaining this ability, she selects a number of skills equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier. When making a skill check with one of these skills, she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so. A rogue may gain this special ability multiple times, selecting additional skills for it to apply to each time.


Skill Tricks:
Shrouded Dance
Nimble Stand
Nimble Charge
Twisting Charge
Clarity of Vision
Back on Your Feet

Equipment:
Mindarmor armor enchantment from the MiC for +5 vs mind affecting spells. Do not use the XPH version.
Wand Chambers
Eternal Wands of Wraithstrike

 

[Androrc]

Bard
Rogue
Dashing Swordsman

I remember Dashing Swordsman from Order of the Stick... Is it an actual class or are you joking

You want to look into the Einhander feat (Complete Adventurer, IIRC), which gives you several new options if you fight with a light weapon one-handed. Also, there's a tactical feat in Complete Warrior which allows the use of a one-handed weapon plus waving about a cloak or cape to parry and distract the enemy (historically accurate, in spite of the silly imagery). Complete Champion has War Devotion, which allows you to take less penalties for more gain when fighting defensively or using Combat Expertise. Since fighting defensively is more or less the schtick of one-handed fencing, might as well get the most out of it. It's possible to get huge AC this way. Complete Adventurer also has a feat which provides a slight damage boost (+1d6 or so) when fighting defensively.

Certainly nice feats, I'll keep them in mind.

However, you also want to obtain good damage output. If all you have is a high AC, most enemies will quickly learn to just ignore you, since you're not all that threatening AND hard to take down quickly. For this I heartily recommend using Tome of Battle! Maneuvers are often standard action attacks, so using a one-handed light weapon doesn't hurt as much, and will provide a nice damage boost or other bonus. With your free hand, you can even initiate Setting Sun throws. A Warblade base would probably be best where pure damage output and tanking ability is concerned, but Swordsage allows the most diverse tricks, and gets excellent AC in light armor.

Ahh, excellent suggestion! The warblade seems to me the best option, since it relies heavily on intelligence, which the duelist and swashbuckler also use, and thus a build that includes levels of Warblade, plus at least Swashbuckler 3 (I imagine the insight bonuses of the Warblade stack with Insightful Strike?) and Duelist 1 could be interesting.

If you don't want to go into Tome of Battle, may I recommend a Rogue 4/Swashbuckler 16 with the Daring Outlaw feat? Gets all the sneak attack of a Rogue but much better BAB and HP. When relying on a bunch of extra damage dice, it'd be best to go for two weapons, though, so you can get in devastating full attacks. Rapier plus (defending) dagger, maybe? Stylish and historically accurate.
Scout 4/Ranger 16 with the Swift Hunter and Improved Skirmish feats would be another way to obtain high precision damage output and good BAB. Skirmish helps out with AC as well, and you keep that "mobile fighter" feel. Two weapons are recommended for this, as well as Travel Devotion (for moving as a swift action) or a level of Lion Totem Barbarian (for Pounce).

Besides what has already been said, PHB2 has the feat Driving Attack which allows the wielder of a piercing weapon to carry out a special sort of bull rush as a full round action. You have to be at least a 14th level Fighter 4 to take it.

Einhander and the silly cloak feat, Combat Cloak Expert, are both found in PHB2.

If you're a swashbuckling type, successfully pulling off Elusive Target's Diverting Defense (CW) or Combat Panache's Fortuitous Tumble (PHB2) is enormously satisfying, I would think.

Effects that trigger on critical hits are more relevant to the wielder of a (keen) rapier than to most, and even more so to an Arcane Duelist 7. There is the feat Telling Blow which might be of interest to anyone with sneak attack.

I own Tome of Battle but am not familiar with it; Shadow Blade allows adding Dex to damage, but not with rapiers. Is there a way to get Dex to damage with a rapier?

Good question

I'd go for a Bard based fencing build myself. Maybe Bard 8/Arcane Duelist3/Swiftblade9, using Snowflake Wardance for Cha to attack. Works better with a Str based build that uses Power Attack, through, due to the AC's third level ability. When you Power Attack with a weapon wielded in 2 hands (say, a longsword), you gain 2 damage for every point subtracted from the attack roll (capped, of course by your BAB)... and the Arcane Duelist can take points off of damage to add to attack, which means you net a free amount of damage up to your BAB. And there's no reason not to PA up to your BAB now since you effectively get rid of the penalty.

Rogue 3 (Penetrating Strike ACF)/ Swashbuckler 3 (Arcane Stunt: Blur)/Fighter 2 (Hit and Run ACF)/ Rogue 12

32 point buy stats:
Str: 10
Dex: 16+5 = 21
Con: 14
Int: 16
Wis: 10
Cha: 10
BAB: +16/+11/+5
Base saves: Fort: +11, Ref: +10, Will: +6

Sneak Attack: 7d6+20

Penetrating Strike (Dungeonscape): deal 1/2 Sneak Attack damage to target normally immune if flanked in exchange for trapsense.
Arcane Stunt (CM): Gain an SLA from the following list: blur, expeditious retreat, feather fall, jump, spider climb. Casting time is 1 swift action (immediate action in the case of feather fall) and duration is 1 round. Ability useable 1+Int mod times per day. CL is equal to swashbuckler level.
Hit and Run (Drow of the Underdark): +2 to Initiative and dex to damage as a competence bonus on weapon rolls in exchange for losing heavy armor and tower shield proficiency.

Feats:
1. Craven
2. Weapon Finesse
3. Combat Reflexes
6. Einhander
7. Expeditious Dodge
8. Combat Expertise
9. Combat Cloak Expert
12: Combat Panache
15: Staggering Strike
18: Savvy Rogue

Rogue Special Abilities:
Crippling Strike (Ex): A rogue with this ability can sneak attack opponents with such precision that her blows weaken and hamper them. An opponent damaged by one of her sneak attacks also takes 2 points of Strength damage. Ability points lost to damage return on their own at the rate of 1 point per day for each damaged ability.
Skill Mastery: The rogue becomes so certain in the use of certain skills that she can use them reliably even under adverse conditions. Upon gaining this ability, she selects a number of skills equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier. When making a skill check with one of these skills, she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so. A rogue may gain this special ability multiple times, selecting additional skills for it to apply to each time.


Skill Tricks:
Shrouded Dance
Nimble Stand
Nimble Charge
Twisting Charge
Clarity of Vision
Back on Your Feet

Equipment:
Mindarmor armor enchantment from the MiC for +5 vs mind affecting spells. Do not use the XPH version.
Wand Chambers
Eternal Wands of Wraithstrike

Interesting build and build ideas! Thanks for posting them.