Fey Beguiling vs. Sly Gambit [Now with multiple, albeit eccentric, builds!]

[darkbard]

If your 7th level WIS Cleric were picking a new Encounter Power and has the Dune Trader Theme, would you stick with Fey Beguiling or choose Sly Gambit?

 

[MwaO]

Sly Gambit definitely. Not sure what the benefit of Fey Beguiling is for most PCs. Especially Clerics.

 

[darkbard]

It definitely prevents a foe from attacking and possibly sets up OAs vs incoming attacks, depending on enemy positioning.

 

[MwaO]

It definitely prevents a foe from attacking and possibly sets up OAs vs incoming attacks, depending on enemy positioning.

If someone can't attack you, that doesn't stop them from attacking others. What does the Cleric do to prevent that?

With a Defender, there's an easy answer. Leaders just mean go after someone else in the party.

 

[darkbard]

If someone can't attack you, that doesn't stop them from attacking others. What does the Cleric do to prevent that?

With a Defender, there's an easy answer. Leaders just mean go after someone else in the party.

Valid points. I guess I was thinking of the defensive benefits of negating the attack because of positioning rather than directing it elsewhere. But one really can't count on positioning in a way that would prevent that attack from being redirected at an ally, especially as a leader who needs to be within five for healing word and similar boosts. Poor thought process on my part.

 

[darkbard]

[MENTION=12749]MwaO[/MENTION] 's clear insight got me thinking that it would be a good idea to post a full build here to see if others might spot some fuzzy thinking on my part.

Some prefatory notes:

This isn't an attempt to build a powerhouse CharOp build but rather a solid character that stays within concept (a Drow Cleric who serves the Leader role in the group), contributes both in combat and in Skill Challenges (the game would hypothetically be split between the two--nearly all of game play divided pretty evenly between combat scenarios and SCs), and ameliorate the Cleric's clear weakness as a Leader: enabling allies.

Other group members: Controller Half-elf Vestige Warlock (build within a few threads of this), Halfling Rogue party face, Half-Orc Two-blade Ranger.

Since Drow are DEX/WIS and Clerics really can have any score as a secondary, I decided to maximize the ability bonus to DEX and build around movement and initiative rather than go the INT route (which would open Flame of Hope; but, then again, I really like the enabling aspect of Caravan Master, even if it's not as potent from a CharOp perspective as FoH or Luckbringer of Tymora, the other PP I considered).

MC Invoker, Staff Expertise, and Sonnlinor's Hammer are for (a) additional control (ie, minion popping) for a group without a Wizard or Invoker, (b) solid MBA with reach.

Inherent bonuses are being used; loot is as character's portion of DMG parcels minus those removed for Inherent bonuses. Gear for Leaders always gives me fits, though, so I would love other suggestions. Bracers of Mental Might are there so I can choose from the Cleric STR Encounter powers to fill in at weaker WIS levels, but I haven't given any thought yet as to which power I might want to swap in.

In any event, that's an awfully long preamble already! Here's the build. I would relish any feedback!

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Moondancer of Sehanine, level 11
Drow, Cleric (Templar), Caravan Master
Cleric Option: Battle Cleric's Lore
Inherent Bonuses
East Rift (East Rift Benefit)
Theme: Dune Trader

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 9, CON 13, DEX 21, INT 11, WIS 21, CHA 13

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 12, DEX 16, INT 10, WIS 16, CHA 12


AC: 27 Fort: 18 Ref: 25 Will: 27
HP: 75 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 18

TRAINED SKILLS
Dungeoneering +17, Heal +15, Insight +15, Religion +10

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +9, Arcana +5, Athletics +3, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +6, Endurance +5, History +5, Intimidate +8, Nature +10, Perception +10, Stealth +11, Streetwise +6, Thievery +9

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Dune Trader Feature: Quick Formation
Drow Racial Power: Cloud of Darkness
Cleric Utility: Favor of the Gods
Cleric Feature: Healer's Mercy
Cleric Utility: Healing Word
Cleric Attack 1: Sacred Flame
Cleric Attack 1: Sonnlinor's Hammer
Invoker Attack 1: Hand of Radiance
Cleric Attack 1: Cause Fear
Cleric Attack 1: Moment of Glory
Cleric Utility 1: Sudden Inspiration
Cleric Attack 3: Death Surge
Cleric Attack 5: Inspire Fervor
Cleric Utility 6: Holy Celerity
Dune Trader Attack 7: Sly Gambit
Cleric Attack 9: Dismissal
Cleric Utility 10: Word of Vigor
Caravan Master Attack 11: Desert Skirmish

FEATS
Level 1: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Acolyte of Divine Secrets
Level 2: Staff Expertise
Level 4: Improved Initiative
Level 6: Quick Defense
Level 8: Superior Implement Training (Accurate staff)
Level 10: Superior Reflexes
Level 11: Superior Will

ITEMS
Ritual Book
Comrades' Succor
Traveler's Camouflage
Healer's Brooch +1 x1
Bracers of Mental Might x1
Resplendent Circlet x1
Cord of Divine Favor
Symbol of Victory +2 x1
Accurate staff x1
Hide Armor x1
====== End ======

 

[MwaO]

Generally seems good. But...

It kind of pains me with the idea that you're going to be doing half skills/half combat and such a PC has no Dex skills after spending an MC feat. I'm not particularly enthused by Caravan Master. If you have Bracers of Mental Might, I might look at Captain of Fortune+Insightful Leader to MC Warlord in Heroic.

 

[darkbard]

Generally seems good. But...

It kind of pains me with the idea that you're going to be doing half skills/half combat and such a PC has no Dex skills after spending an MC feat. I'm not particularly enthused by Caravan Master. If you have Bracers of Mental Might, I might look at Captain of Fortune+Insightful Leader to MC Warlord in Heroic.

Thanks for the feedback! These are conversions of my wife's favorite 3E party, and whether or not a game will ever get off the ground with them in 4E is questionable.

That said, yes, there really is no good way to make good use of that high DEX as there really aren't any leader classes with DEX skills on their list that would be useful to MC into. (Plus, the Rogue has these all covered, as does the Ranger, to a lesser extent.) The Background for Dungeoneering as a class skill is to fill a hole in the party array. The MC Invoker is an easy way to get a staff weapliment, though this build isn't currently making use of said benefits.

I thought about redoing this build as a Cleric|Warlord/Invoker (via Divine Secretkeeper), which retains Ritual Casting and picks up some good Warlord Power options but loses a trained skill and Hand of Radiance.

 

[darkbard]

there really is no good way to make good use of that high DEX

*Except, of course, for high initiative and the defenses. ;^)

 

[darkbard]

Here's a crazy idea: MC Acolyte of the Veil to train Acrobatics or Stealth (the former for its trained only application, the latter good with its Drow synergy) and an Encounter teleport. Not a terrible way of making use of that high DEX score....