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D&D 5E Fifth Age: A hard science fiction 5e conversion

PyroPhoenix

First Post
Hello, I've been using this system for a year now in an D&D game I'm running, albeit I have had to implement a metric ton of new homebrew stuff to make this game more compatible with regular D&D 5e (such as the use of characters whom use magic, although this isn't hard science anymore with that implemented it makes it more akin to regular D&D) and more weapons, armour, miscellaneous gear and whatnot to flesh out some of the game play but it has been fun and commend you for making a good system.
 

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PyroPhoenix

First Post
Plus two handed weapons in enclosed spaces, where you'd be more likely to use them in a sci-fi setting? Incredibly unwieldy. Even if you don't have to swing it, it's a difficult propostion. For the power axe, I could see the stats being used as a vibro-blade or mono-molecular weapon, but I can't imagine the sledge seeing use.

I think it'd still be a good idea to put archaic weapons into the book. It's an ease of use thing. I'd rather have to play off as few things as possible.

Well, I found that power weapons like the sledge do start making more sense when you thing like space combat, in games I've played I've used the idea that because of the lack of gravity everybody gets a -4 penalty when fighting in zero-g conditions (-2 in low gravity) when using melee weapons and that the majority of ranged weapons have the potential to seriously damage the internal structures of a space ship when fired inside the ship, so combat inside of a spaceship mainly takes place with melee weapons. The reason why power weapons are good is that with this rule power weapons allow you to ignore this penalty, making there presence that much more useful. Plus when I think of futuristic spaceships, I would always think there corridors to be big enough that swinging around a two handed weapon like a sledge would be reasonably possible.

The trick is not to reinvent the wheel. You have a whole book (phb) full of archaic weapons.[/URL]

How I would possibly deal with archaic weapons is just use the regular stat block of weapons in the PHB, however give them all the property of primitive, which would make them treat any futuristic armour as having higher AC then normal (lets just say +2 for now), making them still just as damaging, just harder to get through the tougher material that makes futuristic armour. Although if you do do this then you should probably make it clarified that people specifically trained in the use of archaic weapons (such as savages) may ignore this penalty because of there training with such weapons have made them more efficient to the point of being as effective as regular futuristic weapons, this way you don't make the savage class weaker by using that rule.
 
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How I would possibly deal with archaic weapons is just use the regular stat block of weapons in the PHB, however give them all the property of primitive, which would make them treat any futuristic armour as having higher AC then normal (lets just say +2 for now), making them still just as damaging, just harder to get through the tougher material that makes futuristic armour.

Actually this wouldn't be necessary. There's this interesting quirk of armour design: since you design armour to provide protection from the most common weapons, weapons you haven't factored into the design can often cut or punch through it. You can't design for every eventuality and redundant weapon technology just isn't factored in. Kevlar is fantastic at preventing gunshots for example, but doesn't stand up well at all to cutting, so arrows and knives are still very dangerous. Police in the UK wear stab vests for this reason: guns aren't common, but knives are.

A guy in an exosuit, even with advanced materials in the armour, might actually be threatened by someone with a longsword since one of the advantages of using a two handed blade is you can use it as a lever while grappling and expose vulnerable areas like armpits and gaps between plates to thrusts.

Most traditional weapons couldn't do much to traditional armour either: you can't cut plate and it was be incredibly difficult to dent the higher end stuff. Basic technique was to expose gaps, or break someone's bones with concussive force through the armour.

The weapons are redundant more because of the extreme risk in closing with the enemies to the user and the practicalities of carrying them, than their efficacy against modern armour.

It'd actually make sense to go the other way, or have armour that does differently versus different weapons, although I don't think that's necessary. Anyway, there's probably been enough on archaic weapons. I'd still like to see them in the PDF for ease of use, but what I really want to see is more of the star ship combat.
 
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PyroPhoenix

First Post
Your analogy is great, albeit Kevlar vest can either be bullet resistant or stab proof, depending on how its made. I do a lot of sword fighting and we have to wear kevlar vest to not get hurt. However you do make an interesting point maybe archaic weapons don't need to be statted in any way, the only problem being I feel like archaic armour would have the reverse problem, since IMO archaic armour would probably be just as good as futuristic armour when stopping laser type damage, but everything else would shred through archaic armour like it was paper. I mean history-wise a arquebus (the predecessor to the musket) could pierce through a set of full plate armour like it was nothing and leave a sizeable hole in the wearer (pretty much killing them), now your introducing the best non-magical armour in D&D to futuristic weapons like a gauss pistol or even just regular slug throwers and archaic armour would stand no chance.
 

Your analogy is great, albeit Kevlar vest can either be bullet resistant or stab proof, depending on how its made. I do a lot of sword fighting and we have to wear kevlar vest to not get hurt. However you do make an interesting point maybe archaic weapons don't need to be statted in any way, the only problem being I feel like archaic armour would have the reverse problem, since IMO archaic armour would probably be just as good as futuristic armour when stopping laser type damage, but everything else would shred through archaic armour like it was paper. I mean history-wise a arquebus (the predecessor to the musket) could pierce through a set of full plate armour like it was nothing and leave a sizeable hole in the wearer (pretty much killing them), now your introducing the best non-magical armour in D&D to futuristic weapons like a gauss pistol or even just regular slug throwers and archaic armour would stand no chance.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. Honestly though I'd hate to be wearing plate against laser fire. Lasers kill be heating things up; you'd get cooked.

I'm planning on having savages not quite so primitive in my setting. Most of their armour will probably include pieces salvaged or traded from offworlders, they'll probably be using some basic trade firearms with longbow and crossbow stats, stuff like that.

I'm also thinking of reskinning the pneumatic sledge as the pneumatic ram; essentially a rifle or handgun gripped small battering ram that could be used for breaking bones in close and could reasonably be mounted with a laser pistol attachment.
 
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PyroPhoenix

First Post
You say that but then why does in the game there is a specific modification to actually have a laser weapons to do kill via heat (heat gun mod) which means that laser weapons in this game aren't really heat based, there closest damage type in regular D&D would probably be radiant from how i understand it (but not as holy as radiant, just similar). So a laser would probably get reflected some what off of plate, if you were to actually use it as fire damage and not radiant, then you could possibly use the rules for the spell heat metal in that case to produce similar results.
 

Capn Charlie

Explorer
Hello, I've been using this system for a year now in an D&D game I'm running, albeit I have had to implement a metric ton of new homebrew stuff to make this game more compatible with regular D&D 5e (such as the use of characters whom use magic, although this isn't hard science anymore with that implemented it makes it more akin to regular D&D) and more weapons, armour, miscellaneous gear and whatnot to flesh out some of the game play but it has been fun and commend you for making a good system.

I'm thrilled you've had such use out of it! Let me know any feedback you might have had on how things work, any odd interactions or balance issues. Fighting power creep has been an uphill battle for me.

Okay, I love to see debate going on in here.

My vision on the differences of laser and blaster weapons, first off, note that they are both laser weapons, and rely on similar tech, they just go about things differently. Blasters are pulse lasers that pulse their emissions in such a way as to cause nasty wounds. This is where their higher damage rating comes from.

You can read a little more detail here:

[sblock]Take one kilojoule's worth of laser energy and divide it up into 1,000 single-joule pulses separated by 5 microsecond intervals. Focus it down so the spot size is about one millimeter. The first pulse hits asteroid pirate epidermis. The pulse is fast enough and the energy is concentrated enough so that it creates a little explosion. This blasts a crater in the asteroid pirate's flesh up to four centimeters in diameter, depth of 2 centimeters.

Plasma and bits of flesh fly into the path of the beam but there is no beam there. The explosion was done by a single pulse, but the next pulse won't arrive for another 5 microseconds. The plasma vanishes almost instantly. 5 microseconds later roughly 90% of the flesh debris has cleared the beam path. Now laser pulse #2 arrives, sailing through a void with no plasma or flesh bits, and arrives at full strength causing a second explosion at the bottom of the crater. This creates a second crater. The two craters have a combined depth of 4 centimeters. Repeat for the remaining 998 pulses.

Dr. Schilling calculates you can bore a hole through soft body tissue about 30 centimeters deep before the tunnel collapses (taking about 0.005 seconds for all 1,000 pulses). Roughly the equivalent to a high-velocity pistol bullet or a small centerfire rifle.

The 5 microsecond pulse rate is optimized for soft body tissue, other rates are optimal for steel or other materials.[/sblock]

Beam lasers are intended to be the needle sharp beams that poke burney holes through things. They use a different type of laser altogether, one optimal for use in space, and have the interesting side effect of usually being invisible there (except for at the target where there is a flash of light as some of it is instantly converted to plasma). The heatgun mod converts a beam laser into a glorified flashlight of death that cooks you. That's pretty cool.

Now, game balance dictates what their mechanical stat blocks should be, and I tried to apply the science as best I could to support that. You might notice that the range for everything seems really short. This has to do with combat battle maps that play routinely uses, and wanting there to be distinct mechanical trade-offs for different weapons. If the two had differign effective ranges of 150 and 200 yards, this is not really a debate, just use the one with a bigger die, and it will probably never matter. As it is, people have to position and work around the map to get good shots in. (Yeah, I'm a minis and map guy, so this was a major concern during design for me.)

As for the rest,

I will keep up development on deeper spaceship rules, they have just been on the backburner.

Archaic arms and armor were never intended to be a major design focus, just a means to an end, of letting our intrepid heroes beat up on less advanced species, and occasionally take one along for the ride. In the strictest of terms, the savage is not as good as the soldier, in my estimation, due to lack of proficiencies and thus quality equipment. They can still be lethal, fun, and useful in a party, and anyone that choose to play a giant furry conan the barbarian in a spaceship game gets what they deserve. I do not think this is a trap option, or intentionally under-powered, just a natural continuation of reasonable statistic interpretation.

I still like my power weapons, they make sense and work for me and my mind's eye, even the power sledge. And good catch, the thing is also basically a pneumatic battering ram, thrusting with it is a fairly common tactic I would think. That being said, it's like calling a chainsaw a weapon, this is more of a tool, a devestating one when used for violence, but still more of a tool. I imagine not many spacers would carry their sledgehammer as their go-to combat implement, but rather use it as a special option when environmental conditions require.

Is the damage too high? Guns are good. Really, really good, and for this option to ever see play it has to be competitive mechanically, and doing great damage if you can get up on the enemy is one of these ways it can. I've seen a savage dodge around the battle for two rounds to get into a flank, and suddenly drop behind enemy cover and start laying people out. It was a lot of build up, a great pay off, and was really quite impressive (albeit crazy) to watch in the mind's eye.

Archaic Armors... they're bad. They have good AC for the cost, and you can apply their one mod super cheap, but they're just not that great, and the stats bear that out. 5e hp based combat is an abstraction, and a lot of this works from that mindset. We are not trying to be simulationist, just a little more grounded in reality than spacewizards swinging their laser cutlass. It was my intention that the basic weapon and armor stats as presented would let high-tech be coolly superior to archaic arms and armor by dint of base numbers, and require no further modding, but of course adjudicate it as you see at your table. I've had people with better and worse tech than what is listed as default assumptions for primitive gear.

Laser and Ballistic are damage types for a reason, primarily that I wanted a way to track what I saw as the two "post modern" main weapon damage types, letting people stack high resistances against them, then suddenly be waylaid by bludgeoning or piercing damage.
 

PyroPhoenix

First Post
I'm thrilled you've had such use out of it! Let me know any feedback you might have had on how things work, any odd interactions or balance issues. Fighting power creep has been an uphill battle for me.

Might be just me but when I've been using your system for our games, the majority of my players played classes from the original PHB (which i had to re-jig there starting equipment/skills and what not to fit the futuristic game), but the ones who did play futuristic classes I found that they became more powerful more quickly, this may be due to the level cap for your futuristic classes being at level 10 but yeah its just something I found when trying to merge the two together (the game would probably be fine if none of the PHB classes and what not were used).

Another thing that my players and I have found is that some of the weapons are quite lack lust when compared to how they sound like they should be; an example of this is anti-armour grenades and rifles, from how our group is I feel like the anti-armour weaponry shouldn't ignore damage resistances, but instead ignore AC caused by armour, to a certain extent, as higher grade armour may be able to combat this, because we have found that in the universe that my campaign is set in (Hyperdrive is yet to be invented, aliens haven't been discovered yet, humanity still confined to just our solar system and not further out, humanity are in the middle of a civil war of sorts) you will rarely find anything to fight that has damage resistances (especially when you are mainly fighting other people as monsters from the MM are really weak to futuristic weapons, remember I only just checked back in now after a year, so i've been using the version that was from aug PDF one from a while back, hence why I haven't used the HH); Another small issue that can be easily resolved... there is no finesse melee weapons.

In the dropbox link you should be sent to something called the comprehensive guide to all futuristic homebrew equipment, its a document I put together filled with some of the equipment from your PDF as well as my own homebrew stuff (of which I have gathered from a number of different places as well as stuff I've made up). After I came back on here recently to see if there was anything new, i did do my best to update some of the things you altered in the newest version, however I only skimmed through the pdf and changed anything that i noticed, so yeah not all things have been changed to there new versions. But maybe this new list of stuff could give you some more ideas on other things and what not. Sorry its on dropbox, sadly the file is too large for enworld to handle.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/osym5p2xy...o all homebrew futuristic equipment.docx?dl=0
 

Capn Charlie

Explorer
There are some neat items in there. I was immediately envious of your sundry gear table and will be building one of my own.

In my games anti armor grenades are often used as dialable breaching charges. Also there are a lot more Dr carrying targets in my game. Before I had the hazard handbook I used the guard and thug statblocks in the mm (With guns and better armor) many times.

I intentionally left out melee weapons with finesse to try to keep strength relevant. I have also never bothered with light or heavy weapons, allowing any two one handed weapons to be used in tandem. It has always seemed fine. You could count combat knife as finesse and drop it to d6, perhaps. I just want people to put something in strength if they want to melee.

Sent from my MT2L03 using EN World mobile app
 

PyroPhoenix

First Post
There are some neat items in there. I was immediately envious of your sundry gear table and will be building one of my own.

In my games anti armor grenades are often used as dialable breaching charges. Also there are a lot more Dr carrying targets in my game. Before I had the hazard handbook I used the guard and thug statblocks in the mm (With guns and better armor) many times.

I intentionally left out melee weapons with finesse to try to keep strength relevant. I have also never bothered with light or heavy weapons, allowing any two one handed weapons to be used in tandem. It has always seemed fine. You could count combat knife as finesse and drop it to d6, perhaps. I just want people to put something in strength if they want to melee.

Well yeah I guess the anti-armour weaponry would have very different aspects to it depending on the world you are in, but you are welcome to take ideas out from that guide that I sent. One thing that I will note, there are mentions of damage factors against vehicles, basically what that means is that a vehicle grade weapon does 5x more damage to infantry while spaceship based weapons do 25x more damage to infantry; the same is on the reverse where an infantry weapon does 1/5x damage to an atmospheric grade vehicle (rounded down) while they do 1/25x damage to a spaceship (rounded down), however certain infantry weapons that I've made are able to alter this as they are designed to damage vehicles and spaceships: autocannon to vehicle is /3, to spaceship is /15 ; anti-armour rifle to vehicle is /2, to spaceship its /10 ; las cannon to vehicle is /1, to spaceships its /5. You can use a sort of similar infantry factor system for yours aswell, because as it is now the average adventure could easily survive being hit by a spaceship from something like a heavy beam laser for example, as no damage factoring system is introduced.

Also one other thing, in spaceships, are we to assume artificial gravity technology has been invented and implemented in all ship designs, this way entities won't be acting as if they are in zero-g. If not, do things like grav-boots or mag-boots exist to do this in a pseudo sense. Because this have a real effect to gameplay.

Edit: Another thing actually, since you are using computers to do everything on a spaceship, does that mean that you replace all checks to be using the intelligence characteristic (E.g usually when using a gun its a DEX check, but because your using a computer to use a ship board gun, would it now be an INT check)?
 
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