Fighter Core Class Variant

[Outergod]

I'd like to get some feedback on something one of my players has suggested for a Fighter core class variant...

He would like to swap out the Feats:
Medium Armor Prof.
Heavy Armor Prof.
Shield Prof

in order to get the following skills as class skills:
Search
Spot
Listen
Move Silently
Hide In Shadows
Balance
Tumble

and get 4 + Int. Mod in skills per level. (which may be asking too much but that's why I'm looking for feedback)

Would this be relatively balanced?

Thanks,
Outergod

 

[Crothian]

No, it isn't. You are giving them 7 new class skills, all of them good, useful skills. That and the skill points for three week armor proficiencies, it is not even closed to balanced. Have him just be a Fighter/Rogue. You get the skill points nad the class skills. That's what multi classing is for.

 

[Outergod]

No, it isn't. You are giving them 7 new class skills, all of them good, useful skills. That and the skill points for three week armor proficiencies, it is not even closed to balanced. Have him just be a Fighter/Rogue. You get the skill points nad the class skills. That's what multi classing is for.

I see what you're saying. I was just taking a look at the Class Creation Engine looking for a place where the "usefulness" of skills was taken into account when determining the value of the skills themselves (in terms of points). Couldn't find it. So I'm thinking I'll just create a basic fighter-type class w/ 240-250 points from the CCE....that should make the player happy.

Outergod

 

[Outergod]

Perhaps making the fighter sacrifice a bonus feat or 2 would balance out the usefulness of the skills desired?

Outergod

 

[Ruvion]

Or maybe allow him the above skills as class skills if only he is restricted from wearing any armor or shield. It sucks to be a fighter without protective gear.

This is what I do IMC: although it may not be pertinent to what you have planned.

Skill Option: At level 1, a character can change some of their class skills. A class skill can be given up from the following list to gain another skill as a class skill from the list: Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Intimidate, Jump, Ride, and Sense Motive.

 

[Ruvion]

There are published feats...

Almost forgot, the feats Cosmopolitan (from FRCS) and Versatile (from OA) may help you in that regard.

 

[Outergod]

Re: There are published feats...

Almost forgot, the feats Cosmopolitan (from FRCS) and Versatile (from OA) may help you in that regard.

Oh yeah...swap a feat for 1 class skill ...that seems reasonable...I don't know where they come up with some of this stuff.

I think a more useful skill would be something like:

Extra Class Skills [General]
Choose 5 skills. They are always considered Class Skills for your character.

...something like that....4 or 5 skills.

Outergod

 

[Crothian]

I agree, a feat is not worth a single class skill. You might allow him to switch some of his current class skills for other class skills. This seems to work well.

Your right, the fighter/rogue combo I suggested does offer many thing the character doesn't want. But I try to find solutions in the rules, before I advise people to create new ones.

Other ways to blance this would be to lower his HD or sacrifice a few feats. I would defiantly consider at least one of these if I was increasing the skill points to 4 + int per level.

 

[Outergod]

I agree, a feat is not worth a single class skill. You might allow him to switch some of his current class skills for other class skills. This seems to work well.

Your right, the fighter/rogue combo I suggested does offer many thing the character doesn't want. But I try to find solutions in the rules, before I advise people to create new ones.

Other ways to blance this would be to lower his HD or sacrifice a few feats. I would defiantly consider at least one of these if I was increasing the skill points to 4 + int per level.

After thinking about it I tend to agree with you. Either drop 1 or 2 bonus feats ( probably 1 ) or drop the HD to d8...but dropping the HD to d8 is a pretty large hit...

Thanks for the advice Crothian.

Outergod

 

[Crothian]

Yes, dropping the HD to a d8 is a big hit, but the character is losing a little combat effectiveness for knowledge (ie skills). Since he is getting more skill points a level and every level, I perfer to balance that with a loss that effects every level. HD are one of the few places that can be done.

For the new class skills I think sacrificing the armor and one feat (actually have him take a feat called New Class Skills or something like that) would balance out.