Fighter Subclass: The Bravura! (INT-based, tactical, non-magical)

[FrogReaver]

I like the word Contingency, which is much better than the placeholder "Moves".

A downside to making it a distinct thing from reactions, however, is that I actively wanted Bravuras to acquire other reactions for their toolbox: Protection fighting style, Sentinel, Mage Slayer feat, etc.

What are we worried about if they can use other reactions more than once per round? If we gate the number of reactions by level (either by keying it off of extra attacks, or simply tying it to level) then there's a level trade-off, right? Let's say they get two extra reactions by level 7, and somebody goes Sorcerer 13/Bravura 7 with War Caster. Sure, they could potentially cast 4 spells in a round by getting 3 AoO's...on three different turns...but they're casting them as a level 13 Sorcerer instead of level 20. That's a huge investment for an edge case scenario.

Same with Rogue using it to get extra Sneak Attacks.

Or am I missing some other optimization that hasn't occurred to me?

So far rogue seems like the most optimized use. Here's what I see.

Round 1. Bavaura 5/Rogue X gets hit hard uses uncanny dodge to half the damage. He then gets hit again by a big hit. He uses his bonus action to use uncanny dodge again. He then attacks twice and lands sneak attack.

Round 2. Next turn an enemy moves away from him. He takes the OA. He gets hit for another big hit and halves the damage by giving up his bonus action again.

Is it overpowered? Probably not, but it's pretty impressive to be able to call up whatever reaction the rogue variant needs whenever he needs it.

L

 

[mellored]

Off the top of my head.
Divine sorcerer 8/hexblade 1/bravada 11.

Spamming command (flee) or fear, and using reactions to hit up to 4 different people with booming blade. For 8d8+5 = 41 damage * 2 (assuming half save) = 82 damage and the enemy loses a turn.

Compare to a level 20 champion, who hits for 8d6+20 = 48 damage. (+ Some for crit range).

Just to be clear, my suggestion would still have his usual 1 reaction. Which could be combined with out of turn movement. So stuff like mage slayer is still quite useful if he can run up to someone casting a spell. Or run up and protect with fighting style, or smack someone with sentinel.

 

[Guest 6801328]

So far rogue seems like the most optimized use. Here's what I see.

Round 1. Bavaura 5/Rogue X gets hit hard uses uncanny dodge to half the damage. He then gets hit again by a big hit. He uses his bonus action to use uncanny dodge again. He then attacks twice and lands sneak attack.

Round 2. Next turn an enemy moves away from him. He takes the OA. He gets hit for another big hit and halves the damage by giving up his bonus action again.

Is it overpowered? Probably not, but it's pretty impressive to be able to call up whatever reaction the rogue variant needs whenever he needs it.

L

One solution (if it needs a solution) would be that the only thing you can spend on reactions are your attacks, not bonus actions.

And then at level 15: "You can now spend your bonus action on a reaction, in addition to your attacks."

So the progression would be:

Level 3: two reactions
Level 5: three reactions
Level 11: four reactions
Level 15: five reactions
Level 20: six reactions

 

[Guest 6801328]

Off the top of my head.
Divine sorcerer 8/hexblade 1/bravada 11.

Spamming command (flee) or fear, and using reactions to hit up to 4 different people with booming blade. For 8d8+5 = 41 damage * 2 (assuming half save) = 82 damage and the enemy loses a turn.

Compare to a level 20 champion, who hits for 8d6+20 = 48 damage. (+ Some for crit range).

Just to be clear, my suggestion would still have his usual 1 reaction. Which could be combined with out of turn movement. So stuff like mage slayer is still quite useful if he can run up to someone casting a spell. Or run up and protect with fighting style, or smack someone with sentinel.

That would require 4 other casters with command/fear in the party, spending their own actions and spell slots to make this happen, and only if the positioning is right.

Still, if we really think it's a problem, two solutions: "Each unique reaction can only be used once per round" or "You may still only take one Attack of Opportunity per round." My inclination, though, is that it's too much of an edge case to worry about.

EDIT: Oh, wait, Command and Fear both require the target to move on their turn. Hmm. So upcasting Command would do it. On the other hand, you're spending a 4th level slot to do that, and each "hit" requires a failed saving throw and a successful attack roll. For comparison, a 4th level slot on fireball would do 9d6 per target, require only a failed saving throw, and would still do half damage on a save.

Also, the sorcerer trick only works every other round because he would have to use his attack action on his next turn (according to the earlier suggestion that spending an attack on a reaction requires you to take the Attack action next turn), nor would he get to cast a spell.

And Booming Blade requires the target to willingly move. Is that the case with Command and Fear?

 

[mellored]

EDIT: Oh, wait, Command and Fear both require the target to move on their turn. Hmm. So upcasting Command would do it. On the other hand, you're spending a 4th level slot to do that, and each "hit" requires a failed saving throw and a successful attack roll. For comparison, a 4th level slot on fireball would do 9d6 per target, require only a failed saving throw, and would still do half damage on a save.

Fair. That's 31.5 damage. (36.5 with fire dragon sorc/evoker).
But Command and Fear are also lose their turn. So their probably slightly better than half damage.

And Booming Blade requires the target to willingly move. Is that the case with Command and Fear?

According to sage advice...

Jeremy Crawford
[MENTION=4036]Jeremy[/MENTION]ECrawford
If a spell forces you to move, as dissonant whispers does, you're not moving of your own volition. #DnD https://twitter.com/thomas_conners/status/701370511763214336 …

So no. And just to confirm.

Jeremy Crawford
[MENTION=4036]Jeremy[/MENTION]ECrawford
The movement in dissonant whispers can provoke opportunity attacks, since it uses your reaction.

So it's save-or-lose-a-turn and takes 23 damage. Not a problem.
But I got 2 more to check.

Bravada 7/hexblade 5/divine soul 1/rogue 7. Level 3 command/fear, warcaster and booming blade (still adds 3d8).
4d8+5d6+5 = 37 damage * 3 targets.
On par with an evoker fireball.

and
Bravada 11/dvine soul 1/hexblade 8. Level 4 command, with warcaster, crossbow expertise, and eldritch blast.
4d10+20 = 42 damage. Better than fireball...
But... you only get 40' movement to bounce between, so worse targeting. And that's all your feats...


Yea, ok. Not seeing any issue.

1 unique reaction per turn.
Except the "help action" and "protection fighting style". Which are 1/attack.

 

[Hussar]

I admit, I'm pretty sold as well. Shock, horror.

Only thing I might quibble with - the paperwork involved. What I mean is, tracking what actions the character has given up from his/her next turn. I can see this being something of a table issue with people forgetting to track things carefully. Not an insurmountable problem, but, something to be aware of.

 

[Hussar]

Something that does occur to me though - other than 2 weapon fighters, fighters have no real use for bonus actions. None of their abilities use bonus actions - action surge/second wind etc. So, basically, this class is gaining a free "action" with these powers. Not sure if that's a problem, but it is something to consider as well.

 

[TiwazTyrsfist]

I'm missing something big. Can you elaborate on what you think will happen?

Normally you can only make an AoO due to movement when a target moves out of your threat area without disengaging.

Polearm mastery allows you to make an AoO when targets move in to your reach.

So you threaten 24 squares around you and can potentially take 4 AoOs in a round at 1st level, when targets move in or out of that 24 square block.


I don't think this is, by any means, game breaking. Just that it makes an already good feat even more desirable, and is a thing I felt you should look at and go "Am I comfortable with this, Y/N?"

Essentially, without any sort of weapon selection caveat, I would expect 90+% of Bravura builds to take Great Weapon Mastery and Polearm Mastery, and wield a Glaive or Halberd. Which again, is not necessarily bad, just something I feel needs to be consciously looked at and assessed as "Am I, as the designer, ok with this possibility".
(Mitigating factor, GWM, PM, and Bravura all have features that spend your bonus action, so that keeps them from becoming truly absurd together, but they would still, to my mind, have a powerful synergy to a level that would kind of make the feats obligatory).


Also, I'd forgotten about Sentinel. Sentinel + Polearm mastery + Multiple AoOs per turn means anything that moves within 10 feet of you gets locked down, and any enemy you get next to gets extra locked down because you can AoO enemies even if they Disengage.

Again, not saying this is bad necessarily, just that this is a synergy that needs to be evaluated.


EDIT: Just to be clear, I really like this subclass, and I think it's better written that a number that have made it into official WotC published books. I'm just pointing out what I think could be potential powergaming issues.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I admit, I'm pretty sold as well. Shock, horror.

It's like Christmas and Birthday all at once in this thread.

Something that does occur to me though - other than 2 weapon fighters, fighters have no real use for bonus actions. None of their abilities use bonus actions - action surge/second wind etc. So, basically, this class is gaining a free "action" with these powers. Not sure if that's a problem, but it is something to consider as well.

I thought about giving them a custom bonus action for exactly this reason, but it seemed weird to give them something just to make losing it part of game balance.

Ideas?

Polearm mastery allows you to make an AoO when targets move in to your reach.

So you threaten 24 squares around you and can potentially take 4 AoOs in a round at 1st level, when targets move in or out of that 24 square block.

At one point I had "If you're not in Heavy armor and not wielding a Heavy weapon."

That would leave quarterstaves as the loophole.

 

[Guest 6801328]

By the way, I am planning to fold some of these great suggestions back into the text, but I'm under the gun with work for a day or two so won't happen immediately.