Fighter's Mark & Immediate Actions

[Zephrin the Lost]

Hey all,

I'm sure I'm not the first person to ask this, but want to be sure we're handling this right. The fighter characteristic that allows them to take an OA against a marked foe who shifts or attacks a non-marked target is an immediate interrupt and can only be used once per round, correct?

The fighter can still make 'regular' OA against any foe that triggers one, but the special conditions such as ending movement do not apply, correct?

Thanks!

--Z

 

[the Jester]

IDHMBIFOM, but as I recall, that's correct.

Certainly it's correct assuming Combat Challenge or whatever the fighter ability is called is an immediate action.

 

[superpriest]

The fighter's Combat Challenge attack is not an opportunity attack.

 

[nogray]

Default Fighters have two separate abilities that are often confused. They are Combat Challenge and Combat Superiority.

The first, Combat Challenge, is their mark punishment (and the feature is also what allows them to mark any target they attack). It is an Immediate Interrupt that is triggered by an opponent shifting or making an attack that doesn't include the fighter. As an immediate action, it can only happen once per round.

The second, Combat Superiority, is an augmentation of opportunity attacks. It provides a bonus on the attack roll and if the OA was triggered by movement, it stops that movement.

The two are very similar, but don't interact. Even after the Combat Challenge has been used, a Fighter still benefits from the bonus-to-opportunity-attack-rolls and movement-stopping Combat Superiority. The Combat Superiority bonus to attack rolls and movement stoppage does not apply to the attack granted by Combat Challenge, as that is not an opportunity attack.

This is even true when one action provokes both. An enemy adjacent to a fighter that has it marked could make a ranged or area attack (which provokes an opportunity attack that would benefit from Combat Superiority) at a group of the fighter's allies and not include the fighter (which would provoke the Combat Challenge attack). It's not a smart move on the part of the enemy, but it could happen. In that case, the Fighter could technically make two basic attacks (one with a bonus to the attack roll) before the enemy resolved its attack against his allies.

 

[Zephrin the Lost]

Default Fighters have two separate abilities that are often confused. They are Combat Challenge and Combat Superiority.

The first, Combat Challenge, is their mark punishment (and the feature is also what allows them to mark any target they attack). It is an Immediate Interrupt that is triggered by an opponent shifting or making an attack that doesn't include the fighter. As an immediate action, it can only happen once per round.

The second, Combat Superiority, is an augmentation of opportunity attacks. It provides a bonus on the attack roll and if the OA was triggered by movement, it stops that movement.

The two are very similar, but don't interact. Even after the Combat Challenge has been used, a Fighter still benefits from the bonus-to-opportunity-attack-rolls and movement-stopping Combat Superiority. The Combat Superiority bonus to attack rolls and movement stoppage does not apply to the attack granted by Combat Challenge, as that is not an opportunity attack.

This is even true when one action provokes both. An enemy adjacent to a fighter that has it marked could make a ranged or area attack (which provokes an opportunity attack that would benefit from Combat Superiority) at a group of the fighter's allies and not include the fighter (which would provoke the Combat Challenge attack). It's not a smart move on the part of the enemy, but it could happen. In that case, the Fighter could technically make two basic attacks (one with a bonus to the attack roll) before the enemy resolved its attack against his allies.

Great, detailed answer!

Forgive me if I still don't understand. It seems that if a fighter has two marked enemies adjacent, and both shift on the same turn, he gets an Combat Challenge attack against the first but not the second? The second one can shift with impunity?

--Z

 

[nogray]

Well, two things don't generally act on the same turn, but what you have said is true. Immediate actions (not opportunity actions/attacks) are limited to once per round. That means that a character can take one -- and only one -- from when the end of one of his turns to the beginning of the next. This is different from opportunity actions, which are limited to once per turn.

As a specific example, if a Fighter has marked and is adjacent to two creatures, only the first can suffer the Combat Challenge attack. (More precisely, only one of them can. The Fighter doesn't have to attack the first one, especially if he considers the other a better target.) However, if each on their turn tried to move away, the Fighter would get to Opportunity Attack (with the Combat Superiority bonus) each of them. A hit on each would stop their movement for that action, too, making Fighters quite "sticky" in combat.

To be (perhaps exhaustively) clear, if the first shifted away and the Fighter attacked with Combat Challenge (the hit of which does nothing but damage; it doesn't by itself stop the shift or anything), the second could shift away freely. If it tried to move, though, it could still be opportunity attacked, and that attack could still stop its movement.

 

[Unwise]

Some very well laid out answers here. I've nothing more to help clarify, however I would just mention that a DM should consider what an enemy knows when dealing with fighters.

If two enemies are marked by the fighter, they (depending on DM) just know that they are marked. They don't know what the fighter can or cannot do about that. So in the above example, if the first guy tries to shift away and gets belted around the head for it and made to stay still, why would the second guy try that? The DM needs to consider whether the second guy knows that he can shift with impunity after watching his mate get smacked.

 

[MrBeens]

Some very well laid out answers here. I've nothing more to help clarify, however I would just mention that a DM should consider what an enemy knows when dealing with fighters.

If two enemies are marked by the fighter, they (depending on DM) just know that they are marked. They don't know what the fighter can or cannot do about that. So in the above example, if the first guy tries to shift away and gets belted around the head for it and made to stay still, why would the second guy try that? The DM needs to consider whether the second guy knows that he can shift with impunity after watching his mate get smacked.

The way we remember it is as follows:
If the attack is because of the mark, the fighter can only do it once per round and it is a standard melee basic attack.
If it is an attack that any other character could also make (i.e. opp attack because of movement) then he gets the bonus and can stop the movement.