Fighting a black dragon...

[Webby140]

I can't tell you why or how... I played the Dragon exactly as described in the MM under tactics... the party I DM for had no trouble at the same level as the Young Black Dragon.

They were all melee based. :S

 

[DracoSuave]

Area attacks shouldn't take penalties for not having line of sight, as they don't need it. All they need is line of effect. You do need to guess which squares the dragon is in, but if you guess correctly you're attack won't have any penalty.

This is one situation where wizards are handy.

One) Technically, the term is close attack for a thunderwave. Close attacks don't take penalties for not having LOS; whether it is a blast or burst is irrelevant, only if the attack is Close or Area.

Two) You only have to guess when LOS is important (melee and ranged attacks). With a close (or area) attack, you only need to include one of his squares in your attack, which may or may not involve guessing, but you do not need to explicitly nominate his square.

Yes, Thunderwave is -exactly- the right tool for fighting a black dragon.

Force orb, for example, -would- be affected by line of sight rules because it is a Ranged attack, even if your intention was to hit the dragon with the secondary attack-concealment still helps the dragon.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

One) Technically, the term is close attack for a thunderwave. Close attacks don't take penalties for not having LOS; whether it is a blast or burst is irrelevant, only if the attack is Close or Area.

Two) You only have to guess when LOS is important (melee and ranged attacks). With a close (or area) attack, you only need to include one of his squares in your attack, which may or may not involve guessing, but you do not need to explicitly nominate his square.

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[Danceofmasks]

Well, the dragon could be extra sneaky and also incorporate flying in its "guess which square I'm in" movement every turn.
So for say, 1/3 of the rounds, it could be 5' up.

Then the question becomes how far up zones and close blasts extend ...

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

OK, but all it needs to do (once its power has recharged) is make it black where _you_ are and charge into the fight. As much of the party would be either completely ineffective (defenders) or largely ineffective (everyone other than controllers) I just don't see how you can win this fight. Plus it goes forever.

First consideration; setting up the cloud is a standard action. He can't cast the cloud and attack in the same round without spending an action point so he can only do that twice.

Secondly, he has no threatening reach and no ranged weapon beside his breath (close balst 5). He therefore has no means to keep you in the cloud or to fight from that position if you withdraw.

All you have to do is spread out. If the dragon cast the cloud on you and moves in melee, just shift then move away. You have wasted your turn? So has he. Meanwhile, the others blast him with area effect or ready actions to shoot him when he shows himself.

 

[DracoSuave]

Flying?

Fah, the black dragon's natural environment is in a swamp or in some dank cave with underground rivers. Take away natural lighting, make underground pools that connect to other underground pools, underwater caverns and stuff. NOW the black dragon is in its element. Set it up so that most places in its lair have multiple paths the dragon can take but few for the players.

Now -that- is a black dragon encounter.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Cave with passages going out of the larger caverns that are 10' high?
That's a black dragon TPK trap.

 

[DracoSuave]

I wouldn't call it a TPK factory, but it's certainly playing the dragon to its strengths as a lurker. Solo lurkers need solo lurker environments.

My party managed to win by readying actions for when the dragon appeared to roast them, and by plying their wits.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Yeah well ... "solo" monsters are rarely alone.

4e has a fair bit of this though ... mechanically, this mob would pwn the party, if the PCs weren't the center of the universe.
Green dragons, for instance, if they had half a brain they'd use minor actions to throw PCs off cliffs.

 

[DracoSuave]

Hey, if the party is fighting a Dragon, I want them to think the fight was hard and heavily stacked in the Dragon's favor. It's Dungeons and Dragons not Dungeons and Underpowered Thunder Lizards.