Fighting in shallow water

[Quickleaf]

There's always the old grab & drown maneuver.

I had a similar situation when my party explored flooded ruins and an aquatic monster attacked them while they were waist deep. Part of the monster's schtik was it could Multi-grab. I also ruled it would automatically cause target to begin drowning (unless they readied an endurance check to take a gulp of air), even though they werent technically prone. And I did give the +2 attack bonus for aquatic monsters fighting in waist deep water.

Otherwise I'd use Primitive Screwhead's advice.

 

[webrunner]

4 feet would be..

Difficult Terrain

Option to swim if they want if that would make them faster

Any Lightning keyword attack hitting someone in water hits everyone in the water

Any lightning keyword attack fired by someone in the water hits everyone in the water instead of it's target

Any fire damage attack deals half damage

+5 to save against ongoing fire damage

 

[Alaxk Knight of Galt]

Well, the rules for underwater combat give creatures with the aquatic keyword a +2 attack bonus against non-aquatic creatures when underwater. This isn't exactly underwater, but maybe close enough.

It's in the environment section on p. 180 of the Rules Compendium. You make Endurance checks every round, starting at DC 20 and increasing the DC by 5 with every failed check. Failure costs a healing surge, or if there are none left, the PC's level worth of damage. So actually, to correct my previous post, a downed PC in the water will probably die from failing death saves faster than from drowning, unless they were already very low on healing surges.

If they can swim in 4 feet of water, give them the bonus.

So, at Epic, if you are trained in Endurance and have a +5 Con modifier, you can't drown. Does that 20 Endurance check scale by tier? That's silly and not at all cruel enough on the PCs

If they were unconscious, I'd call the endurance check an auto-fail. Drain those surges

 

[Havrik Stoneskimmer]

If they were unconscious, I'd call the endurance check an auto-fail. Drain those surges

This is probably quite reasonable, especially since the failed checks don't actually cause real damage until the PC is out of surges entirely. So there isn't an immediate risk of death from being reduced to negative bloodied in hit points.

I think this is how I'll handle it, since there's a significant difference between trying to hold your breath for a long period and being unconscious underwater. It makes sense that they would automatically fail the Endurance checks in that situation.

 

[Havrik Stoneskimmer]

So, at Epic, if you are trained in Endurance and have a +5 Con modifier, you can't drown. Does that 20 Endurance check scale by tier? That's silly and not at all cruel enough on the PCs

It doesn't scale, but I misspoke in my earlier post. The DC increases by 5 every round whether you succeed or fail on the check. So round one is DC 20, round two is DC 25, then 30, 35, etc. Epic level characters will certainly be able to hold their breath (or go without water or food) much longer than ordinary people, but even they will eventually be overcome.

 

[Alaxk Knight of Galt]

It doesn't scale, but I misspoke in my earlier post. The DC increases by 5 every round whether you succeed or fail on the check. So round one is DC 20, round two is DC 25, then 30, 35, etc. Epic level characters will certainly be able to hold their breath (or go without water or food) much longer than ordinary people, but even they will eventually be overcome.

I'm okay with this

 

[Doombybbr]

i would just have an athletics check to be below water at the start of the turn (otherwise the character has to swim to the surface or take damage).
underwater creatures have a large boost to athletics when in water or don't need to do the check.
underwater characters get a boost to enemies at the surface, characters at the surface cannot attack enemies underwater.
the speed that the water moves at and how long the character is underwater (among other possible factors) affects the required check.
characters(not underwater enemies) lose 2 speed above water and 1 speed below.

but for shallow water as the characters cannot swim they are slowed by half (MORE than swimming) - it is less shallow than the knees it has no effect.

 

[S'mon]

I'd have non-aquatic creatures up to their chest in water grant combat advantage, unless they were swimming. Trapping enemies in water seems a great way to massacre them.

 

[firstkyne]

Suppose you have a scenario where the adventurers are fighting in shallow water (maybe 4 feet deep). This isn't "underwater combat" but it must be more complicated than normal dry land.

Is this just difficult terrain, or does an adventurer have to make an Athletics check in order to "swim" (wade) through it?

Do they take any penalty to their attack rolls fighting a creature in the water?

If the creatures they are fighting have the aquatic keyword (and can therefore breathe under water) do the creatures get any bonus to their attacks on the players?

If they fall prone in the water, should we assume they hold their breath (and have to make Endurance checks if they take damage)? What if they fall unconscious in the water? Do they immediately start to drown (skipping the usual 3 minutes that a person can go without air)?

I think I have an interesting and challenging scenario coming up, but I want to make sure I have a rules handle on everything that is likely to come up.

I'm thinking something like this...


The area is flooded under 4 feet of water.

It is Difficult Terrain: medium sized creatures move at half speed, small creatures must swim to move.

Creatures of up to medium size may swim, if they wish. While swimming, each foot of movement costs 1 extra foot, unless a creature has a swimming speed.

Areas of rough water, or where the flow is counter to a creature's direction of travel, require a successful Strength(Athletics) check.

Rough/counter flow: DC15. Failure: cannot move. Critical failure, creature is carried by the water 2d4 x 5ft.

Very rough/counter flow: DC20. Failure: creature is carried by the water. Critical failure, creature is carried by water 2d4 x 5ft and takes buffeting damage 1d6 (bludgeoning).

Rough water with rocks in:

V rough water with rocks in:

 

[Greenfield]

Hmm, the first question, in my mind, is what game system are you using? That may make a difference, as each has their own rules.

Presuming D&D 3.5, I'd rule 4 feet of water to be more than simply "Difficult terrain".

Presuming firm footing is available (per the table in the DMG), characters can try walking at half speed. In water that deep swimming is a clear option. for Small and smaller creatures swimming may be the only option.

Creatures with a swim speed can obviously choose to use it. Effects like a Fly spell fall into the "none of the above" category on that aquatic combat chart. Move at normal speed, but be considered "off balance", and fight at normal aquatic penalties if under water.

Striking from air to water or water to air might be a question. My own thought is that if a strike begins or ends in any real depth of water, say a foot or more, then the underwater combat rules apply.

Depending on the water, it may offer true visual concealment. Most lakes and beaches I've visited, and a lot of rivers as well, are green water, not clear. Unless the water is in a very fresh water stream, it's a far cry from a nice chlorinated pool.

Per game rules visibility can vary from five to 100 feet. Shallow water is the most likely to be clouded, in my experience, either by turbulence or algae. Go into deeper water, away from the shore, an you get less sand and mud mixed in, and less in the water for the algae to feed on. So the four foot depth of the example suggests that we should think of Obscuring Mist and the like when it comes to perception in the water, particularly when looking from air to water or water to air.

Now add the agitation of a combat to the mix. People struggling for footing are going to stir up mud and sand, blood will act like smoke when something is wounded. There's a reason why most fish depend on sound far more than sight. In an aquatic environment, the creature limited to eyesight is at a severe disadvantage.

For combat: Medium creatures should be able to swing weapons normally at foes above the water. The hindrance of the water on movement, which would affect AC, would be balance by the effective cover the water gives. Someone with Freedom of Movement would be another matter.

The area from area effect spells generally doesn't cross the air/water barrier, so treat all targets as if they have partial concealment/cover.

If an air-breather goes unconscious and drops below water level they begin to drown immediately. Normally they'd have a grace period based on their CON score, but that's specifically or characters holding their breath. Unconscious creatures don't hold their breath. They make a CON check, DC 10 the first round, then again on each successive round with a cumulative one point penalty. The first time they fail they've inhaled water and are drowning/suffocating (see the Suffocation rules). Their real hit points drop to zero, and they're dying.