D&D 5E Finally switching my campaign from 4th to 5th Edition.

[Tallifer]

Because WotC no longer allows new subscribers to the Character Builder and Compendium, which excludes almost all of my players, and because those sites are becoming glitchier with each passing month, I have finally decided to throw in the towel and switch to 5th Edition.

That said, I am looking for advice from other dungeon masters and thinkers who understand both 4E and 5E.

1. My first question: is the problem of the 3E quadratic wizard versus linear fighter back again? Do I have to prepare for spellcasters trying to break my encounters?

 

[Ath-kethin]

The classes are all distinct from one another again, if that's what you mean. They aren't all basically the same just with different names for identical mechanics.

I'd actually recommend taking a look at Basic D&D; the Player's Handbook is a free download at http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop/players-basic-rules

and the DM guide is at https://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop/dm-basic-rules .

These rules are a streamlined version of 5e, but contain everything you need to play the game. You can give them a read, maybe a test run, and determine for yourself if they will meet your needs.

Bear in mind, though, that the basic rules include only four character class options; the Player's Handbook has several times as many. A few new ones have also been introducrd through the monthy Unearthed Arcana colun and the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide accessory.

Basic will give you a good idea of how the edition works, though, without the need for any financial investment by you.

 

[Rhenny]

Welcome to 5e. The wizard/fighter problems from earlier editions is pretty much corrected with 5e. There may be some spells at higher level that grant too big a boon, but most are limited by saves or concentration mechanic. The addition of concentration is a subtle yet powerful invention that keeps magic in check much more than past editions.

From my experience DMing and playing (levels 1-8 as of yet), no single PC has seemed more powerful than the others over the long haul. Of course, in certain situations different pcs excel, but if an adventure has enough variety, the balance shifts so that everyone gets a chance to shine.

When I switched to 4e from 3.5e, I was amazed how much easier 4e was to run. I kind of swore never to DM another 3.5e game again. Now, with 5e, I find it even more easy to DM so I'm sticking with 5e for a long time.

I hope you like it. Good luck. Have fun with it.

 

[jodyjohnson]

Concentration, greatly reduced spell slots at the higher levels, and spell scaling with spell levels make a huge difference.

I'd recommend starting at 3rd (with 0 XP) to get a sturdier starting character.

 

[Rabbitbait]

Concentration, greatly reduced spell slots at the higher levels, and spell scaling with spell levels make a huge difference.

I'd recommend starting at 3rd (with 0 XP) to get a sturdier starting character.

I totally disagree. I recommend starting at first to get a good simple start while you are learning the basics. Sure your characters might die, but that is part of the fun.

 

[Flamestrike]

1. My first question: is the problem of the 3E quadratic wizard versus linear fighter back again? Do I have to prepare for spellcasters trying to break my encounters?

Yes and No. Its entirely up to the DM in 5E.

The trick to DMing 5E from 4E is you need to understand that the classes in 5E dont all use the same resource recharge mechanic or pacing. Instead of at wills, encounter and daily abilities, the classes have a combination of 'short rest' and 'long rest' abilities. Its important to note that not all classes recharge equally; some are long rest dependent (full casters, paladin, barbarian) and some are short rest dependent (warlock, monk, fighter).

What this means is, if you deviate from the expected adventuring day (6-8 encounters per long rest, with around 2 short rests taken in the middle) then this impacts the classes differently.

If you allow a short rest more than every 2 or so encounters, the warlocks, monks and fighters will dominate. If you allow less, they start to drop off. If you allow more frequent long rests (and shorter adventuring days) the full casters, paladins and the barbarian will dominate.

99 percent of the problems with 5E that I see comes down to many DM's dont get the rest 'meta' and/or dont police it strongly enough in their games.

Nova strikes were still possible in 4E (blowing dailies on the first encounter then pulling back to rest) and this is still a thing in 5E. Nova strikes tend to favor the full casters the most (who can dump the highest level spell slot).

I cannot emphasise this point enough. You need to get your encounter pacing and rest pacing right in 5E. Adjusting it one way or the other impacts on different classes differently.

I personally stick to around 6 encounters [[usually budgeted at 1 deadly, 2 medium and 3 hard] per long rest, with usually 2 short rests allowed during that time. I stick to this paradigm for probably 50 percent of the adventuring days the PC's encounter (sometimes there are less encounters, sometimes more). By sticking to this paradigm for around 50 percent of the time, the Players naturally pace themselves around this expectation, and police themselves accordingly.

5E is much more of a game of attrition and resource management than '1 deady fight per adventuring day'. Its more lots of little ones, each draining a portion of the parties resources until after about 6-8 'medium-hard' encounters they are out of hit dice, spell slots and other resources, and need to hole up to long rest.

Timed adventures (save the princess before X or bad thing Y happens, escape the dungeon before X or be marooned, recover the macguffin before X and you get paid double the gp etc etc) and 'random' encounters are your friend to enforce the longer adventuring days. Also reactive BBEGs who simply move the macguffin elsewhere if the PC's attack and then fall back. Use a combination of the above to enforce the adventuring day/ rest balance. If that doesnt work, and they still attempt to nova everything feel free to occasionally be more heavy handed ('You cant rest here, its too dangerous' or simply 'You rest but dont recover your spell slots' or if the players still dont buy in, 'No').

The longer AD's in 5E arent that bad. Compared to 4E, combats take a fraction of the time, and are over generally in about 5 rounds, with Player turns rarely taking more than a minute each. Most combats will be over inside of 20-30 minutes, meaning you can generally get at least 3 encounters in in a 3 hour session, and have plently of time for the exploration/ social pillars.

On the topic of combat, take note that 5E is much more swingy at low levels that 5E.

Finally dont worry about spell casters. They have cut down on high level slots in 5E (you only get one each of 6-9th generally), and the concentration mechanic is fantastic for removing the old 'pre buff' routine of having a million different spells running on you at once. Casters now have to be a lot more selective with their spell casting. Most save or suck spells allow repeated saves every round to avoid, and high level 'solo' monsters have legendary saves (auto pass a saving throw a few times) as well.

Youve made the right choice; 5E is the best edition of DnD ever IMO.

 

[Azurewraith]

fighters and casters are pretty balanced hell if anything fighters are favored as Great weapon master and Sharpshooter are pretty broken especially with bless and at higher levels.

Creating encounters isn't as simple in 4e im afraid as the CRs are utter garbage even worse than some other editions and the fact there's like 3 encounter xp tables to work from that and the DMG calls deadly i find most groups call cake walk. You really need to get the feel for what your group is able to handle and plan accordingly. On the topic of combat solo monsters don't work like they do in 4e you throw something like a dragon or a balor at the pcs solo itll get smoked by lvl1s (exaggeration but not a big one) you need to add mooks and lots of them.

On the topic of rests and recharges its hard to cram in 6-8 encounters a day sometimes but i find throwing "deadly" after deadly encounter works just as well and you can get away with 3-4 encounters, staggered reinforcements can help add some pressure as well to stop the nova.

Magic item spam is a thing of the past learn to love it. As are roles learn to love it. Combat is alot less tactical learn to love it?

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I'd actually recommend taking a look at Basic D&D; the Player's Handbook is a free download at http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop/players-basic-rules

and the DM guide is at https://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop/dm-basic-rules .

These rules are a streamlined version of 5e, but contain everything you need to play the game.

This needs a bit of clarification. The actual rules in the Basic Rules pdf are identical to those in the PHB. There is no streamlining in the sense that combat option A, or variant tracking method B isn't there. Chapters 1, 5, 7, 8, 9 and 10 are word for word* the same as what is in the PHB--even including sidebars. That includes all the rules for combat, adventuring, ability scores, spellcasting, and the complete equipment chapter.

What you get in the PHB are more races, classes, and spells. You also get the optional rules for feats and multiclassing. And a lot of art.

The DMG on the other hand, has a lot of stuff you won't get elsewhere (as does the MM). The Basic DMs rules just tell you how to manage encounters and XP, and give a sampling of monsters and a few magic items. (One interesting thing to note is that all monsters of the "beast" type from the MM are in the Basic rules.)

* In chapter 1 there is a place where the PHB refers to more classes than the Basic rules does, and there are perhaps a few other places such as that the Basic rules do something like that.

PHB: "Do you want your character to be the toughest adventurer at the table? Consider a class like barbarian or paladin."

Basic: "Do you want your character to be the toughest adventurer at the table? Consider the fighter class."

 

[Flamestrike]

fighters and casters are pretty balanced hell if anything fighters are favored as Great weapon master and Sharpshooter are pretty broken especially with bless and at higher levels.

Creating encounters isn't as simple in 4e im afraid as the CRs are utter garbage even worse than some other editions and the fact there's like 3 encounter xp tables to work from that and the DMG calls deadly i find most groups call cake walk. You really need to get the feel for what your group is able to handle and plan accordingly. On the topic of combat solo monsters don't work like they do in 4e you throw something like a dragon or a balor at the pcs solo itll get smoked by lvl1s (exaggeration but not a big one) you need to add mooks and lots of them.

On the topic of rests and recharges its hard to cram in 6-8 encounters a day sometimes but i find throwing "deadly" after deadly encounter works just as well and you can get away with 3-4 encounters, staggered reinforcements can help add some pressure as well to stop the nova.

Magic item spam is a thing of the past learn to love it. As are roles learn to love it. Combat is alot less tactical learn to love it?

I disagree partly here - throwing waves of deadly encounters is not the way to go about it, unless your group are happy with TPKs.

Players are supposed to defeat a medium or hard encounter. Theyre expected to win, expending a few resources. In fact theyre expected to win 6-8 of these medium to hard encounters in a row (with only a few short rests) before being drained of resources to the point that they need to long rest.

If your PCs are smashing your encounters, just throw more at them; dont ramp up the difficulty.

Also, CR is a guideline only. 5 x 5th level PCs have an encounter budget for a 'hard' encounter of 3750-5499xp. A single CR 5 monster is worth 1800xp - making it an easy encounter for a party of 5 PCs'. A 'solo' CR 9 encounter is 5000xp meaning (on XP alone) it is roughly an appropriate encounter for 5 x 5th level PCs.

You only use the CR as a guide to assess that the monster may have attacks or abilities that could prove lethal to lower level PCs. Taking the CR 9 example, it includes things like a Young Blue Dragon (10d10 damage breath weapon would wipe out a party of 5th level PCs) or a Fire Giants +11 to hit, 6D6+7 damage (multiattack) greatsword is equally deadly. Such an encounter would likely result in a TPK.

Its tempting to increase the difficulty and lower the number of encounters, but dont do it. Taking 5E's swingy nature into account, you'll only kick off an arms race and wind up with TPKs.

Just use more encounters, not harder ones.

 

[Tallifer]

As are roles [a thing of the past]: learn to love it.

2. Second question, for other 4E players who have switched over: Which rôles do the new classes approximate? (I notice for example that the PHB ranger is not nearly the Striker of 4E, but perhaps no class is?)