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Finally switching my campaign from 4th to 5th Edition.
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6792086" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Welcome aboard, though, really, that's not a very good reason. You shouldn't feel 'forced' into it. </p><p></p><p>I'll have to try that. Where is this 'order page?'</p><p></p><p>One option is to use pre-gens for new players. Whether you're doing that with the 5e books or the 4e CB, it reduces confusion.</p><p></p><p>Yes. But, not as bad nor as overtly. In older eds, all a casters spells got better as he leveled, and he got more of them - thus 'quadratic.' In 3.5, lower-level spells topped out in damage and saves vs spells got better with slot level, not caster level, so while the caster got more spells, there were limits to how much better the lower-level ones got at he leveled up and his top-level slots were most important. In 5e, spells scale mainly with slot level, but saves vs spells scale with character level (not even caster level), so top-level slots are, again, most important, but you're still getting more and more powerful spells as you level up. So the wizard may still be 'quadratic' (you've still got x-squared and xy in there), but they're not as dramatically so (a and b are lower values).</p><p></p><p>Not so much, no. There's not a lot of point to being 'prepared' in that sense - there are encounter guidelines but they're very much just guidelines. Your most powerful tools as a DM are rulings, not matching PCs powergamed-monster-for-powergamed-build nor wielding the ban-hammer. </p><p>If a player pulls something that turns out to be broken, you rule against it right then and move on. Later, you can let it work in a situation where it wouldn't be broken. </p><p></p><p>They don't, really. Formal roles are gone. </p><p></p><p>Most classes can deliver a lot of DPR with the right choices, and several are arguably Strikers in the sense of being all but hardwired to do DPR and little else (Fighter, especially, but also Barbarian and Rogue). Rangers and Warlocks can do high DPR fairly straightforwardly as well. Neo-Vancian casters with the right spells on their lists are leaders (Cleric, Druid, Bard) or controllers (Cleric, Druid, Bard, Wizard), or even strikers ('blasters') based on what spells they prepped that day. Sorcerers and Warlocks are controllers or blasters depending on choices made at chargen/level-up rather than at long rests. </p><p></p><p>The more traditional/de-facto roles could be said to be: </p><p></p><p>Tank (DPR and high durability): Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin, and, oddly, 'Moon' Druid.</p><p>Heal-bot: Cleric, Paladin, Druid, Bard, even Ranger, a little.</p><p>Mage (solves any problem with limited-resource spells): Wizard (in spades), Cleric, Druid, Bard, or, less so, Sorcerer, Warlock, Paladin, Ranger, AT, EK, and even, much less so, Monk, 'Totem' Barbarian, Magic Initiate and/or Ritual Caster feats.</p><p>Thief (scouts, opens locks, gets killed by traps, is generally expendable): Rogue, to a lesser extent Monk or, in the woods, Ranger</p><p></p><p>I guess we could add slightly less-traditional:</p><p>Blaster (range and/or area DPR): Warlock, Sorcerer, Wizard, Cleric, 'Land' Druid, Fighter or Ranger archery style w/Sharp-shooter feat.</p><p>Opportunist (situational DPR, good skills): Rogue, Monk.</p><p>5th-Wheel (doesn't do any one traditional role all that well): Monk, Ranger.</p><p></p><p>We could come up with others. Ultimately each class is not designed to make a general range of contributions to the party as part of a team, but to evoke the feel of that class in the classic game (or 3.5, in the case of the Sorcerer & Warlock). </p><p></p><p>Rather than expecting the players to come up with a balanced party, you just need to adapt challenges to the party - or they have to adapt their strategies to the resources they have, which could include declining certain challenges....</p><p></p><p>If you have any sort of consistent pacing to your campaign, you can just simply adjust the definition of long and short rest to suit. Even if you don't, you could come up with something more arbitrary, like 13A's 'full heal up' and 'campaign loss' concepts (see 13th Age).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6792086, member: 996"] Welcome aboard, though, really, that's not a very good reason. You shouldn't feel 'forced' into it. I'll have to try that. Where is this 'order page?' One option is to use pre-gens for new players. Whether you're doing that with the 5e books or the 4e CB, it reduces confusion. Yes. But, not as bad nor as overtly. In older eds, all a casters spells got better as he leveled, and he got more of them - thus 'quadratic.' In 3.5, lower-level spells topped out in damage and saves vs spells got better with slot level, not caster level, so while the caster got more spells, there were limits to how much better the lower-level ones got at he leveled up and his top-level slots were most important. In 5e, spells scale mainly with slot level, but saves vs spells scale with character level (not even caster level), so top-level slots are, again, most important, but you're still getting more and more powerful spells as you level up. So the wizard may still be 'quadratic' (you've still got x-squared and xy in there), but they're not as dramatically so (a and b are lower values). Not so much, no. There's not a lot of point to being 'prepared' in that sense - there are encounter guidelines but they're very much just guidelines. Your most powerful tools as a DM are rulings, not matching PCs powergamed-monster-for-powergamed-build nor wielding the ban-hammer. If a player pulls something that turns out to be broken, you rule against it right then and move on. Later, you can let it work in a situation where it wouldn't be broken. They don't, really. Formal roles are gone. Most classes can deliver a lot of DPR with the right choices, and several are arguably Strikers in the sense of being all but hardwired to do DPR and little else (Fighter, especially, but also Barbarian and Rogue). Rangers and Warlocks can do high DPR fairly straightforwardly as well. Neo-Vancian casters with the right spells on their lists are leaders (Cleric, Druid, Bard) or controllers (Cleric, Druid, Bard, Wizard), or even strikers ('blasters') based on what spells they prepped that day. Sorcerers and Warlocks are controllers or blasters depending on choices made at chargen/level-up rather than at long rests. The more traditional/de-facto roles could be said to be: Tank (DPR and high durability): Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin, and, oddly, 'Moon' Druid. Heal-bot: Cleric, Paladin, Druid, Bard, even Ranger, a little. Mage (solves any problem with limited-resource spells): Wizard (in spades), Cleric, Druid, Bard, or, less so, Sorcerer, Warlock, Paladin, Ranger, AT, EK, and even, much less so, Monk, 'Totem' Barbarian, Magic Initiate and/or Ritual Caster feats. Thief (scouts, opens locks, gets killed by traps, is generally expendable): Rogue, to a lesser extent Monk or, in the woods, Ranger I guess we could add slightly less-traditional: Blaster (range and/or area DPR): Warlock, Sorcerer, Wizard, Cleric, 'Land' Druid, Fighter or Ranger archery style w/Sharp-shooter feat. Opportunist (situational DPR, good skills): Rogue, Monk. 5th-Wheel (doesn't do any one traditional role all that well): Monk, Ranger. We could come up with others. Ultimately each class is not designed to make a general range of contributions to the party as part of a team, but to evoke the feel of that class in the classic game (or 3.5, in the case of the Sorcerer & Warlock). Rather than expecting the players to come up with a balanced party, you just need to adapt challenges to the party - or they have to adapt their strategies to the resources they have, which could include declining certain challenges.... If you have any sort of consistent pacing to your campaign, you can just simply adjust the definition of long and short rest to suit. Even if you don't, you could come up with something more arbitrary, like 13A's 'full heal up' and 'campaign loss' concepts (see 13th Age). [/QUOTE]
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Finally switching my campaign from 4th to 5th Edition.
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