Firearms

[Abisashi]

Depending on your tech level, firearms shouldn't be more deadly than bows, just easier to use. Perhaps no non-proficiency penalty, instead proficiency lets you reload in reasonable time.

I would extend the threat range, not increase the multiplier. A good (but non-fatal) hit with an axe is much more damaging than a bullet, but bullets can bounce around inside of a person, and it may be easier to aim them for vital spots.

So, #1, but with 19-20 instead of x3.

 

[Imperialus]

RANDOM TRIVIA MOMENT!!!

Did you know that the term "bullet proof" comes from the practice of firing a round into the breastplate of plate armor? The indentation confirmed that it could withstand the shot...the "bullet proof", as it were. Evidence of the practice is visible in many modern museums via a quick tour of the mideval armor section.

*the more you know*

though most armours were proof tested with a pistol from approximatly 20 feet. There were a few suits of Italian siege armour made to be proof against musket fire but they were the heaviest suits of armour ever made, oftentimes weighing upwards of 80 lbs. An average suit of gothic or milanese armour by comparison weighed about 50 lbs.

 

[BASHMAN]

Yeah, firearms kind of break the whole "armor makes you harder to hit" cheese of D&D.

I would recomend using Armor (and natural armor) as DR, and giving the guns an armor piercing rating. So a pistol might be AP 4, and a brown bess AP 6. A full suit of plate will give you some protection, but chainmail and lesser armors should be useless against it, otherwise you'd have seen most people wearing armor during the American Revolution.

The rules for firearms SHOULD discourage people from wearing armor-- because that is what happened in reality! Light armor that does not impede movement would still be worn, and useful against rapiers, etc, however, the full suits of chainmail and banded mail would be gone. The only heavy armor left would likely be the noble who insists on wearing Full Plate, because it does offer some protection against bullets.

If you want to get really historical here, you could also make "Conquistador Armor", which would essentially be leather body armor with steel breast-plates and helmets. Whenever someone attacks someone wearing this armor, roll a d10. A 10 indicates a head-shot, meaning that the steel helmet was hit, granting +8 AC. A 1-5 indicates a body shot, hitting the breastplate, also giving +8 AC. Anywhere else is simply a +2 AC for the leather.

 

[Machiavelli]

Yep, firearms make armor seem MUCH less useful to a soldier, and darn near useless to a quartermaster. An individual soldier may be able to afford an expensive set of armor for the merely marginal use it has against enemy fire, but he'll pass on the option because he'll have to march all day in it. Perhaps he'll just purchase a nice, thick breastplate, hoping to survive a limb shot. A quartermaster will just flat out laugh at the price tag of even a breastplate.

Even today, combat body armor only tends to protect the chest and gut, and usually concentrates on the front of the body. New infantry vests are getting better with this, moving to protect the thighs, groin, back, neck, and shoulders, but once again these options become expensive and somewhat uncomfortable for wearing all day.

Your best bet is to throw realism to the wind for the sake of balance, then go with whatever "feels" right. If you want everyone to have a firearm, make them cheap, easy to use, and effective. If you want archers to consider grabbing rifles instead, make them diffcult to use and expensive, but very effective. If you don't want to displace the role of melee fighters, go for short maximum ranges and long reload times.

 

[BASHMAN]

None.

Use the D20Modern rules.

Spoilsport!

 

[The Lost Muse]

As far as it goes, I'm talking muzzle-loaded muskets and pistols fired with black powder. I think I will leave the rules as they are written (x3 critical) and avoid messing with the damage ratings, but I will take a long look at the range increments.

As a followup question: did early firearms essentially take a man out of the fight once he was wounded, or could he generally keep going?

The reason I ask is that I am considering requiring a fortitude save if someone is critically hit with a firearm.

Thanks for all the replies so far!

 

[Diomeneus]

ooh! and down forget! being under water even slightly is going to make you nearly invincible to bullets fired from the same level as you! ie not straight down shots

 

[Brother MacLaren]

As a followup question: did early firearms essentially take a man out of the fight once he was wounded, or could he generally keep going?

The reason I ask is that I am considering requiring a fortitude save if someone is critically hit with a firearm.

This is a problem with the HP system in general, and if you're going to change it for firearms, you should probably change it for all attacks. If there's some measure of incapacitation *other* than HP damage, it should probably also apply to getting hit by a dragon's breath, getting run through with a lance, or falling 80' onto pointy rocks.

Maybe you'd want to change the Massive Damage Threshold a bit? If you take 25 points in a single blow, Fort save vs. Massive Damage or become disabled (0 hp). If you take 50, save or die.

 

[Geoff Watson]

Most D&D house rules for guns make early firearms way too good.

They were worse than bows in nearly every respect, except for training time.

Geoff.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Plate armor was effective against early firearms, it wasn't until heavier muskets began to develop in the 16th century that firearms started to gain prominence in warfare. Eventually heavy cavalry went from full plate to just a very thick breastplate to protect their most vital areas.

Here's how I did muskets for their brief appearance in one game:
Simple Weapon
Musket 30gp 2d10 damage 19-20/x3 60ft range

A musket ignores 4 points of AC granted by armor or natural armor (heavy breastplates and bucklers, 'targes', designed to counteract muskets ignore this penalty).
However because of smoothebore muskets general inaccuracy all targets are treated as having concealment at distances more than 30ft meaning a 20% miss chance (if you're firing in volleys with a bunch of other guys this hardly matters).
A mustket takes 4 full round actions to reload.

I also had a few feats to decrease loading time/increase damage:
Musket Drill I
Prerequisites: Rapid Reload, BAB +6
You can reload a firearm as two full round actions; you gain +2 to damage with firearms.

Musket Drill II
Prerequisites: Rapid Reload, BAB +11, Fire Arms Drill I
You can reload a firearm as one full round action, you gain an additional +2 to damage with firearms (total +4).

Musket Drill III
Prerequisites: Rapid Reload, BAB +16, Fire Arms Drill I, Fire Arms Drill II
You can reload a firearm as a move action; you gain an additional +2 to damage with firearms (total +6).


PS- Muskets still aren't as good as a decent character with a bow, they're mostly only nice for mooks or as an opening attack in a battle.