Firing into a group

[Zephalon]

How do you handle firing into a group?

Imagine group of archers firing into a squad of 100 orcs.

- Would they have to pick out one target each? Normal attack roll?

- Would they just fire into the group (this seems logical to me)?
------>Would you give them a bonus to hit then?
------>Would you use the cover rules for linear fire (starting with the first orc and checking each orc in a straight line from the archer)?
------>Would you use the ballistic rules with deviation to see which square is hit and then figure out if an orc in that square was wounded?
-----> Would you let the archers do an attack roll to see if they hit the group (very large target) first, then figure out the target randomly, then see if the attack was enough to hit him?

This is for very large groups only....

 

[Darklone]

A good archer will not fire simply into a group. There's a much to high chance to hit noone.

 

[Bagpuss]

Personally I'd buy a book that has mass combat rules and use what ever they say.

There are a number out there already.

 

[Bagpuss]

A good archer will not fire simply into a group. There's a much to high chance to hit noone.

It reminds me of a cartoon or sketch I saw once.

Army of 100 orcs facing a army of 100 elven archers. The first volley comes and just one of the orcs dies with 100 arrows in him.

One elf turns to the other "Who'ld have thought we were all aiming for the same guy."

At long to extreme range with a longbow, you'll be aiming at the group. Before the battle you would have noted the distance to certain things on the battle field, say a tree or hedge line. Then test fired an arrow to that range, and marked the shaft of your bow to show the angle you have to hold it to hit that range.

You bow would then have several marks each for a different range band as the enemy gets to that point on the battle field you lose your arrow in that general direction knowing it will fall within the mass of men.

 

[hong]

you lose your arrow

AAAaaaa!!!

Ahem. 'Scuse me.

Carry on.

 

[Zephalon]

At long to extreme range with a longbow, you'll be aiming at the group. Before the battle you would have noted the distance to certain things on the battle field, say a tree or hedge line. Then test fired an arrow to that range, and marked the shaft of your bow to show the angle you have to hold it to hit that range.

You bow would then have several marks each for a different range band as the enemy gets to that point on the battle field you lose your arrow in that general direction knowing it will fall within the mass of men.

Thats what I thought...

How can we handle this?

First Try:
Firing at the group would be AC 10 + size, attack roll modifiers would be normal (range, visibility and so on). If the group is hit, the archer rolls an attack roll with no modifiers (no BAB, dex, range...) at +0 at a random target within the group. If he hits the targets AC, he rolls damage.

 

[Jens]

First Try:
Firing at the group would be AC 10 + size, attack roll modifiers would be normal (range, visibility and so on). If the group is hit, the archer rolls an attack roll with no modifiers (no BAB, dex, range...) at +0 at a random target within the group. If he hits the targets AC, he rolls damage.

This sounds fairly good. Remember to penalize the 'group AC' for not being very mobile; I think the penalty for Dex 0 (stationary) is -5. Also, there should probably be some sort of miss chance depending on how tightly packed the group is; tight formation or spread out.

Thinking out loud: Firing into a group should be advantageous, at least when your skill is low. I think the hit-chance should only depend on luck and on how much armor/cover ("Shields up!") the targets have.

I am not sure whether penalties for range should be enforced when determining whether a target has been hit; there's no real loss of precision, but there is a loss of penetrating power. I think it *should* be enforced to keep hitting from being too easy. But wait... now it is no easier to hit someone in a group than it would be to hit a specific individual in the group... So how about considering the target to be more or less stationary as well? It is not like he can dodge tha arrow anyway (now I'm thinking of the situation where lots of archers volley at a group of opponents - the individual arrows can't be dodged, the best defense is simply to hide behind shield/armor). So how about denying the targets their Dex bonuses to AC? Or, simply consider them to be flat-footed with respect to the arrows (obviously, you can't get any kind of precision bonus to damage when firing into a crowd).

That way, (I think) all skill is ignored when determining the outcome of firing into a group, so it only depends on size and armor/cover.