First Adventure: Kobold Hall vs Keep on the Shadowfell

[MightyTev]

Hey everyone!

Wanted to get everyones opinions on something. I'm about to start a 4e game with five completely new players.

My original plan was to use Keep on the Shadowfell, completely with pre-gen characters and quick-start rules, then if they all enjoyed that then we could split the cost of the main books between us. Following H1 I'd like to run H2 and H3, although after the first adventure the players may want to roll (can we still use roll?) their own characters.

Also, I hear there is also a starter adventure in the DMG also designed for first level characters.

This leaves me with a number of options:

• Use the pre-gens on Kobold Hall, followed by H1 with own characters
• H1 first with pre-gens, followed by H2 with own characters
• Use pre-gens throughout H1-H3
• Use own characters from start

What do you all think?

 

[the Jester]

Use your own characters from the start, whatever you do. Is my advice.

 

[MightyTev]

Use your own characters from the start, whatever you do. Is my advice.

I would normally, but because its 5 completely new players this may take a while. Whereas with the pre-gens we can just start playing and I can explain the rules as we go.

 

[sukael]

I would normally, but because its 5 completely new players this may take a while. Whereas with the pre-gens we can just start playing and I can explain the rules as we go.

I'd say to go with entirely new characters, too. Given that you're basically only selecting discrete abilities (instead of the skill points of 3e), it shouldn't take long for folks to figure out what they want their PCs to have, even if you have to check any math after.

 

[zero skill LPB]

KotS pre-gen characters

There are a number of errors with most of the KotS characters; I think only the Halfling Rogue is error-free.

If you still decide to use the pre-gens be sure to double-check all the numbers and correct the errors. You should probably sift the forums here for suggested changes as well (the Half-Elf Cleric makes for a 'meh' battle cleric, the Dwarf Fighter should probably have Dwarven Weapon Training at 1st level instead of Power Attack, etc.).

By no means commit to using the pre-gens throughout the H series. If you use them at all I'd say strip out of the suggested advances and allow your players to pick new stuff when they level.

 

[Graf]

To throw my weight in on the other side?

The pregens are fine. There are a few irritating errors, but it's -not- a big deal. The faq clears all of it up.

Let people muck around, deal with the first few adventures and just "reality shift" when people are comfortable.

I realize a lot of people put a huge premium on having everything on their character just so, but you'll loose a lot of momentium as people struggle to pick the everything perfectly, realize 4e doesn't work like they thought and then rebuild their characters.

If they're going to rebuild anyway (or be stuck with things they don't like for a few levels) why not just start them off with a team that works and play through.

 

[Rechan]

The pregens are buggy, definitely buggy, and not really great builds. If you want to do pregens, design your own, based on what people are interested in playing. Or, walk each player through the creation process separately. (Hell, you don't even have to show them the book; just give them the rundown of the races, then the classes, and once those are picked, just tell them 'here are the encounter powers. 1 does this. Another does this. A third does this. Which one sounds cooler to you?'

Why so much against the pregens? Among other things, characters don't really care about their characters if they didn't make their characters. There's no sense of "mine" to it. Also, limited options.

Kobold Hall is more interesting than the first four encounters of H1, which all involve kobolds. It also has a nice synergy with H1's plot, as far as the kobolds are concerned.

 

[Connorsrpg]

I have used several pre-gens for the playtests I have run and they are fine...for playtests. If you intend to continue with the characters and level up (play a campaign of any degree) then I strongly suggest building your own characters. Players have little to no conection with a pregen and that will get worse as the game advances, b/c they will be learning new things and think, 'Hey why can't I do that'? etc.

At least if given the choice up front it is their choice/fault. But being new you can be lenient too (retraining rules sound like they are good for this).

Some tips to help out beginners:
1. Have them choose a picture (or mini) as their character FIRST. Then they can build around that. Even if you choose a pic from the core books. It gives a focus and is fast for generating gear, etc. There is often no better way for a beginner to latch on to a character than finding an awesome pic and saying 'that is you'
2. If they WANT a pregen use them. (Against what I said earlier, but no use stopping a player that wants them). The fact the pregen pics don't match the gear/powers irks me, as it makes my point above hard.
3. Ask, 'what do you want your character to do'? Again, before the books. Ie: throw fire, use two-hand sword, etc. This will give you an idea on which abilities and powers to pick.
4. Players often adapt well. Whilst there are more choices in 4e, they are limited to small areas. Only a few at-wills, dailies, etc. Not like choosing 1st level wizard spells from enourmous lists Let them pour over the books and maybe devote whole first session to creating characters.

(If all else fails, have them roll powers randomly ...I know this will not sit with modern play 'optimum builds', but I love randomness and quirky characters ).

 

[Rechan]

3. Ask, 'what do you want your character to do'? Again, before the books. Ie: throw fire, use two-hand sword, etc. This will give you an idea on which abilities and powers to pick.

This also helps if you ask them "Can you think of a movie character you'd like to be kinda like?"

Riddick and James Bond make great rogues (in fact, they exemplify the two builds). Spawn and John Constantine make great Warlocks. And so on.

 

[Reaper Steve]

Use the KotS pregens for a one-off intro using Kobold Hall, just to teach them the ropes and in a self-contained scenario. Then let them make their own characters and run KotS.