First Level Character Hit Points

[Elrohir_of_Kellemar]

How are DMs dealing with the begining hit points for first level characters?

I have not played 4E yet and have not even read the books thoroughly, so I know I don't have a good grasp of the changes yet. I have been DMing since before the 1st edition books came out, but have used a lot of house rules over the years as well as the different rules systems.

It stikes me forceably that a first level party will have fighters begining with about 30 hit points and the ability to actually use 100 or more for the day. Even Wizards will start with over 20 HP and be able to use 50-60 in a day. This is a wee bit different from the days when a mage might start with 2 or 3 HP and the big fighter was lucky to have 6 or 8.

It seems that 4E starts out characters at 3rd or 4th level effectively similar to what computer games such as Neverwinter Nights did. This certainly makes surviving at 1st level much easier (and rolling up replacement characters less necessary). Since I normally start characters out at first level, this issue is important to me.

In order to challenge a first level party with all those HPs available, it almost seems that a DM needs to challenge them as he would a third level party or have a continual succession of encounters similar to computer gauntlets.

What have you other DMs found useful for first level party handling?

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

Have you looked at first-level monsters?

 

[Mort_Q]

The 4e monsters are balanced against 4e PCs. Don't fudge anything.

It's still not difficult to TPK an inexperienced first level party with level appropriate monsters.

Or an experienced one for that matter.

 

[webrunner]

1st level monsters also have a lot of hp, and 1st level players lack things even 2nd level players have- a 2nd feat, and a +1 to pretty much their entire sheet. It's pretty balanced as it is, if you follow the rules.

 

[DarkBeef]

For me personally, I have to agree that it feels more like starting at third level... Which is what we ended up doing in previous editions 9 times out of 10. 1st level characters with 2 or 3 HP (or 6 to 8 HP) really suck. It usually meant choosing pathetic monsters like solo kobolds, flubbing rolls, or just plowing the PCs over.

Not to mention, the power increase from 1st to 2nd level always bothered me. Why would the PCs suddently become twice as powerful after a measly 1, 2 or whatever thousand XP?

I say good riddance to crap starts.

As for Neverwinter Nights, they actually did start you at max HP for whatever class you are (10 for fighters, 4 for wizards, etc), which was the standard rule in 3.0 and 3.5 if I'm not mistaken. You just happened to get through that first level quickly .

Just try running a complete three levels of play by the book before you make any judgements.

 

[Maximillian]

The game was designed on the assumption that no one likes having their character rendered unconscious and dying on the fist swing of a broadsword. That 6hp Fighter in your 2nd Edition game was just as likely to go below his threshold for damage when the first orc charges him as the wizard was. This situation has (in my opinion, luckily) been eliminated. It looks like a 1st level fighter can stomach five or six average blows from enemy artillery before going down. This makes fights longer, more interesting and (again IMO) more fun.

If you like the sort of game where 1st level characters are no better than average mortals, fourth edition will probably irk you on that front.

 

[Donatello]

The starting HP increase is a godsend. In 3.x, your basic "Orc with Falchion", which is in the MM as a CR 1/2 creature, does 2d4+4 damage with each swing, at a bonus of +4 to hit. That swing will reduce your average rogue or bard to unconscious, your average wizard or sorcerer to death's door, and may even fell your average fighter (if it gets lucky on the damage roll). It also crits 15% (threat on an 18) of the time which increases damage to 4d4+8, which will outright kill most 1st level characters.

The new balance is players with 25-35 hp squaring off against monsters with 25-35 hp. It makes the whole thing more dramatic, where everyone can get involved without a complete terror of dying because the DM rolled well once. As a DM, it's still very easy to defeat your players, but it now takes either bad tactics on their part (which should be punishable by defeat), or a lengthy string of bad luck lasting 3 or 4 rounds. A single die roll no longer comdemns a character to death.

 

[strumbleduck]

It does feel very much as though the characters are starting at 3rd level, with 1st and 2nd levels having been removed from the game. As has been stated, the 1st-level monsters in the MM are an entirely appropriate challenge for a 1st-level party, and you don't need to do anything special to make the encounters harder. This is mostly a positive change: a lot of campaigns used to start above 1st level since 1st level was fairly boring, and 1st-level PC's used to die too easily.

If you really, really want, it should be possible to start PC's at level 0, level -1, or level -2. (Level -2 PC's should remind you very much of 1st-level characters from earlier editions.) Just have the players create 1st-level characters which they then "level down" by decreasing hit points and such. Here are the necessary details:

• Level -2 PC's start with a single at-will power and a single encounter power. They gain a second at-will power at level -1 and their first daily power at level 1.
• PC's below level 1 take a -1 penalty to all ability scores. PC's below level 0 take an additional -1 penalty to attack rolls, ability checks, skill checks, initiative, AC, and defenses.
• PC's gain their first feat at level 0 (though human PC's start with a feat).
• Paladins do not gain plate armor proficiency until level 0. The same goes for fighters and scale armor, and for rangers and hide armor. Wizards do not gain implement mastery until level 0, and warlocks do not gain shadow walk until level 0.
• It takes 625 XP to advance from level -2 to level -1, 750 XP to advance from level -1 to level 0, and 875 XP to advance from level 0 to level 1.
• When planning encounters, use an XP budget of 88 x number of PC's for level 0, 75 x number of PC's for level -1, and 63 x number of PC's for level -2. If you like, you can level down monsters in the MM below 1st level, with 88 XP for a 0th-level monster and 75 XP for a monster of level -1.
• It's ok to hand out some magic items while the party is at very low level. Before they reach 1st level, the party should find one 4th-level item, two 3rd-level items, three 2nd-level items, and four 1st-level items, as well as some healing potions and about 1000 gp.

 

[Solodan]

Good riddance to low levels! I like the suggestions above for negative levels if you want to do the whole backstory thing (I love starting campaigns in which the PC's are farmers/peasants who are in the right place at the right time)

Still, level 1 characters are pretty fragile and I plan on starting my next campaign giving each character a single potion of healing as part of their starting equipment to ease the transition.

 

[pallen]

Healing surges and higher first level hit points play a bit differently than they read. I'd recommend running a few sample first level encounters/adventures before making any house rules. It may look like that first level fighter has 100 "potential" hit points, but in reality, he can still go down in a round or two of bad rolls against even level opponents.