D&D 5E First TPK Players got frustrated

[Bladecoder]

Hi! So my players and I had a game last night and as the title says there was a TPK. This happened because the players went into a major battle with a flawed strategy that was not going to (and did not) work and they left major sections of the dungeon filled with enemies.

So here is the story, they essentially went into this dungeon to save their friend from being used in this draconic ritual. So they go through the dungeon skipping some rooms along the way (mostly be accident, but a few on purpose) that we full of kobolds. Once they made it to the final room they looked in through the key hole and formed a plan. This plan did not work. Once they decided to run they found out that they couldn't as the Kobolds who they had left alive barricaded the door. This is when they all died.

So my players first said that they felt that I was being unfair. So I told them that they were not necessarily dead but just unconsious and captured by the kobolds, as I felt bad for making the combat very difficult. This gave them the idea that I had planned this all along as a plot twist (eventhough I didn't) which made them annoyed.

Overall this has made me regret letting them keep their characters alive. What do you think, was I being to harsh in combat? Should I have let them keep their characthers?

Thanks in advance! Leave comments below.

 

[ad_hoc]

Sounds fine.

I would have a talk about game expectations. In that talk I would advise against meta-game thinking. It sounds like the players are expecting you to have planned everything out including whether they succeed or not.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

Players need to know that bad plans have bad outcomes. You're right to keep them alive as prisoners, that can have some fun outcomes. Unfortunately lots of players invest too much of their own ego in their PCs and don't like to fail or feel like they're losing control. That's not helped by the fact that there are DMs out there that like to disenfranchise player agency, too. So it can be a fine line. Don't worry too much - let them know the game's not over and there's more challenges to come and ask for them to have some patience. Good Luck!

 

[Ath-kethin]

Ask them: do they want to be dead or alive?

Seriously, a dungeon is (or should be) a living place. Things move and things change. While I don't know that I feel encouraging/forcing them to kill everything in their path is a good idea, your logic holds.

So if they're mad about their own poor planning, give them the choice. Alive and prisoners of kobolds (or whatever) or dead and they can make new characters.

 

[Caliban]

Have them make new characters, who hear about a party of adventurers in the area who never came back. If they go to the same dungeon and beat the kobolds...they can find their old characters remains and equipment.

If they complain, tell them that experiences like this are what builds characters.

 

[BoldItalic]

You weren't being unfair, but you weren't making it much fun for the players. TPK isn't fun unless it is magnificently heroic.

They have learnt that if plans go wrong you won't be forgiving and the risk of character death is real. Suddenly, the game isn't funny any more, and they weren't expecting that. That's the nub of the problem - they weren't expecting "no more Mr. Nice Guy". Partly they are annoyed with themselves for failing, and partly they are annoyed with you for not warning them strongly enough that it might happen.

Perhaps, as they were peering through the keyhole, a door could have slammed in the distance behind them. Then another door, a bit closer this time. This would have given them fair warning that there was activity behind them and they shouldn't ignore it.

But what's done is done. Let them roll up some new characters and go in to find out what happened to their previous selves.

 

[Bradley Hindman]

Ask them: do they want to be dead or alive?

Seriously, a dungeon is (or should be) a living place. Things move and things change. While I don't know that I feel encouraging/forcing them to kill everything in their path is a good idea, your logic holds.

So if they're mad about their own poor planning, give them the choice. Alive and prisoners of kobolds (or whatever) or dead and they can make new characters.

This is excellent advice. Several of my players would much rather be dead than captured. For them being defeated but not killed is far more insulting than being defeated and killed.

Second point: I think you should make it thoroughly clear that you did not plan on their capture. Further, talk with them about how they view capture. Are they OK with it? Many players hate the loss of control. I myself (when a player) don't mind if the DM has a story line that involves my capture. But, by all means don't make me play through the capture scene pretending that the outcome isn't pre-ordained. In my view, if capture is inevitable just narrate the capture and be done with it.

 

[ccs]

Roll your dice in the open.
Make sure the players know that the results of those rolls stand.
Make sure that they know that once the entire party is down the badguys will do as they please with the bodies (once they're done making death saves).

 

[Shiroiken]

Dungeon design can be a pain. It sounds like you had a sandbox style dungeon, where the players could roam about freely, but they expected a linear dungeon, where they have to face each encounter as they go. However you plan to go forward, the players should now know that you use non-linear dungeons, and should plan accordingly. My group regularly blocks off doors they don't open, to prevent any enemies from coming up behind them.

Something seemed a bit off though. The kobolds knew to blockade the door, but the party had no idea they were there. Were they somehow warned from the BBEG? Was there multiple exits, so a messenger could have gone out? Or did you have the barricade happen after the fact? As a player, I don't have enough information, and some could construe this as DM manipulation.

Personally, I would suggest the party make new characters, and be hired by the families of the last group to find out what happened to them. You can then allow the players to decide for themselves which character they want to play after the adventure is over.

 

[iserith]

Did they know that the rooms they skipped were full of kobolds? Or at least had the potential to be occupied by some kind of enemy that could move about the dungeon behind their position?

If they did not, then they are probably objecting to a "gotcha" - feeling blindsided by you for an uninformed decision they made previously. It's a good policy to telegraph potential threats so the players are always making informed decisions. That way if something goes wrong, they can look back and say "Well, I guess we knew what we were leaving behind us and that was a risk we should have thought twice about."

However, if they knew those rooms were filled with monsters that weren't going to just stay put, then their annoyance is probably due to some other factor. That could be simple ego or an expectation that you wouldn't throw anything too difficult at them given their level (the DMG warns against this form of "metagame thinking"). In this case, that's their problem and they're now making it your problem which is not cool. The best solution there in my opinion is an open and honest conversation to clear the air and find a suitable compromise to move forward.