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Fitting the Mythology to the World

Lurks-no-More

First Post
Ever wonder why the standard D&D world has loads of fantasy creatures... that mostly come from Earth mytologies?

You have hippogriffs and sphinxes and hydras and whatnots, because of the ancient Greeks, vampires come from East European folk tales and Bram Stoker, elves and dwarves from Germanic/Scandinavian folklore, ported through Tolkien, and so on.

Then you mix them all together, and get an incoherent mess.

So... Has anyone built a world the other way around?

I mean, taken creatures that aren't from Earth legends (displacer beasts, blink dogs, rust monsters, ropers, beholders... there's lots of them, too) and made myths and beliefs around them, or even created mythical, non-existent creatures that are based on mixed ideas about "normal" monsters?

It's going to be somewhat tougher, of course, and the players are going to lack some intuitive ideas... but that might just be good, if they have seen/done it all.

In a similar vein a gripe about the pantheons:

Earth pantheons are the way they are, because they are mythical constructions: you have agriculture, so you have a god of agriculture. You need an explanation for thunder, so you get a thunder god.

But in a world where these gods are very, very real entities, it seems funny that they would so ideally conform to human concepts.

Suggested solution: First make gods with individual characteristics, personalities, and even some contradictions. Then make up the cults worshipping them, possibly trying to pidgeonhole the gods into neat pantheons.

Try it. Might be fun.
 

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Jürgen Hubert

First Post
Lurks-no-More said:
So... Has anyone built a world the other way around?

That's sort of what I've been trying to to with Urbis. I've taken the bare information from the MM, and then expanded on it to make the monster interesting - and to fit it into the world.

You can see the details here. Many come from other planets in the solar system...

Suggested solution: First make gods with individual characteristics, personalities, and even some contradictions. Then make up the cults worshipping them, possibly trying to pidgeonhole the gods into neat pantheons.

And my attempts at that can be seen here... ;)
 

Matt Black

First Post
In one campaign I played in, our PCs and the adventures they had became part of the mythology and folktale of the world. This was the DM's intention all along - to develop the legends which would be used in later campaigns, and to explain the creation of a lot of the weird creatures and stuff that future players would encounter. You can imagine how fun it was to visit Jon years later and have his players exclaim "You're Eryndil?!?" *basks*

I tried to get a similar feel for a campaign I ran recently - a lot of the semi-divine figures of myth started out (in my head) just as colourful characters, who were exaggerated by years of folklore. It made it hard for the players to know which were real divinities and which were legends, which was a lot of fun.

MB
 

Dark Helmet

First Post
Re: Re: Fitting the Mythology to the World

Jürgen Hubert said:


That's sort of what I've been trying to to with Urbis. I've taken the bare information from the MM, and then expanded on it to make the monster interesting - and to fit it into the world.

You can see the details here. Many come from other planets in the solar system...



And my attempts at that can be seen here... ;)

We all knew THIS was going to happen. :):):)
 

Somewhat.

IMC beholders - which the party haven't encountered yet - are actually mortals who experimented on themselves to increase their mental and magical faculties. The mind flayers are a subsidiary servant race who did most of the mutatin/technical stuff (like the cloners from SWII: AotC). The mind flayers escaped from their beholder masters and now use the technology to build their own empire. Most of the mortal races remember little of the beholders, but remember being ruled by their servant races - illithids, yuan-ti and sahuagin. Most frightening of all is the fact that the eye-tyrants are not dead and don't like being forgotten by history...

I realise that the above is more history than myth so how about this.

In the Dawn Age came the original mortal race - no one remembers their name or what they were truly like, except that they were powerful beyond mortal ken and were unafraid, even of the gods. They spread out across the planets which orbited their sun, which they called the Hearth of Worlds, because by its warmth all life grew. They lived in an age when the boundaries of the universe were more fluid.

The Origines (there is an acute over the e) - as theologians call them - developed all manner of skills and powers, not the least of which was the ability to grow and change themselves. They separated their society into castes, with the most powerful ruling and the least powerful serving. Scholars are divided over whether this caused discontent or whether each was happy in his role.

The Origines began to encode their caste system into the worlds around them and even into their own bodies. Animals were bred to serve each caste and each caste was in turn bred to serve its function. This is how the mortal races began - being created from the star-born lifestuff of the Orignes.

At the bottom were servants, each bred to suit their world or function. From these were born the elves, the dwarves, sahuagin, suited to their respective worlds. Gnomes and halflings were bred to service the devices and the little spaces of worlds. Humans were the multi-role workforce - adept at learning and changing from generation to generation.

Above the servants were the masters of lore and craft, superior to the lower caste because of the knowledge which they possessed. In this caste grew the illithids, masters of the biological magic which underpinned the entire of Origines culture. Some scholars argue that there were others, such as the now far fallen descendants of Gith. These scholars claim that the githyanki were the craftmasters of the Origines and that the githzerai were their researchers of mystical secrets.

At the very top were the rulers, about whom almost nothing was known, only that, over time, they became immortal beings of pure intellect and magic.

No one knows how long this situation continued, but all agree that the achievements of the Origines were without par. However, at some time the Origines empire had grown to fill the entire of the solar system and they began to look to the Void beyond for further frontiers to explore and conquer.

However, in the Void the Origines found powers unlike anything they had ever before encountered and these powers had a dark purpose. Offering powerful secrets in exchange for allegiance, the Demonic powers of the Void seduced the Origines. By an insideous conspiracy, the Demons and Devils who were drawn into the worlds by the Origines caused the inhabitants of the worlds to darken the sun, for Demons from the Void cannot abide the light and warmth from the Hearth of Worlds. By dint of a gargantuan effort which stretched even the powers of the Origines, the first sun was extinguished.

What resulted is a time of terror and almost limtless corruption which is known by some as the Age of the Void Fallen, and by others as only the Darkened Age. With the power of the sun gone the Demons and Devils of the Void invaded the worlds en mass and fractured the empire of the Origines. The Origines were split into various factions and made to war for the entertainment of their demonic masters. New races were born in this time, such as the corrupted orcs, the ogres and giants. For an unmeasurable time, hell stalked all the worlds.

However, not only Demons and Devils dwell in the Void, and the spirits of the stars, the Celestials, saw the extinguishing of the Hearth of Worlds and they mourned its passing. Then they gathered in force and led an army to overthrow the darker powers and restore the sun. Their war is said to have lasted for over a millenia and by its end all peoples had sworn themselves to one side or the other.

The war between the celestials and the dark powers ended when the celestials gathered all of the dead from the endless conflict of the Darkened Age and, purifying and consuming them in an almighty ignition, created a New Sun. Because it was born from the bodies of so many dead, it was called the Pyre, though some still knew it by the name of the old sun, the Hearth of Worlds. Caught close in the ignition of the New Sun, the world of Ashen was burned, scoured of almost all life and of its past, so that only ruins remained.

The ignition of the Pyre drove the main of the demonic forces back into the Void. Many of their servitors, such as the now corrupted Yuan-ti, were left behind. Others - like the mind flayers - were taken as slaves into the Void, only to return at a later time. The mortal allies of the celestials all agreed upon a compact and the final power of the New Sun was to purge the racial memories, so that the follies of the Dawn Age and of the Origines would never be repeated. Recognising this power of the New Sun, many of the remnant demonic servitors hid from the New Sun, to preserve their Dawn Age knowledge. This was the beginning of the split between the elves and the drow, as well as the permanent sea life of the sahuagin. That is why, although the greatest evil comes from the Void, it is the deepest darks of the world which hide evil.

The celestials returned to the Void to become stars, to keep watch for souls which might become lost in the Void.

Of course many theologians debunk all this as silly myth. After all, how can this story account for the gods? And what of the other great beings. And if the New Sun drives away the knowledge and lore of the Dawn Age, how is it the Mind Flayers have returned. Nonetheless, this is the most comprehensive creation myth of all the worlds which orbit the New Sun, the Pyre, the Hearth of Worlds.
 
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Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
When I set out to create an adventure I do so without any reference to the core books and especially the MM instead I create a setting and populate it according to the logic of my world.
I find that 3e's use of Templates and Leveled Monsters helps this immensely

For instance I have two 'fiends' who are the Personifications of Madness and Disease - Troll Scorcerers with the Feindish, Plaguebearer and Bloodstained Templates added (imc all Trolls are fiends).

In my (soon to be Storyhoured) game I sent the PCs to try and locate a Legendary 'Bird'

on the way the come across an snake grappling with a heron - both animals call for help.

So on that premise I then go and say to myself - hmm this legendary bird is it - a Celestial Heron? a Winged Serpent? something else? (lets go see the MM now)

so um yeah I start with the Mythic ideal and then add stats later
 

Jürgen Hubert

First Post
Re: Re: Re: Fitting the Mythology to the World

Dark Helmet said:
We all knew THIS was going to happen. :):):)

Heh. Well, to quote Monte Cook:

"...a lesson I've learned is that if you don't have a marketing department behind you, you can't expect people to know about your products..."

;)
 

CCamfield

First Post
Lurks-no-More said:
E
So... Has anyone built a world the other way around?

I mean, taken creatures that aren't from Earth legends (displacer beasts, blink dogs, rust monsters, ropers, beholders... there's lots of them, too) and made myths and beliefs around them, or even created mythical, non-existent creatures that are based on mixed ideas about "normal" monsters?

That is an excellent idea.


In a similar vein a gripe about the pantheons:

Earth pantheons are the way they are, because they are mythical constructions: you have agriculture, so you have a god of agriculture. You need an explanation for thunder, so you get a thunder god.

But in a world where these gods are very, very real entities, it seems funny that they would so ideally conform to human concepts.

Suggested solution: First make gods with individual characteristics, personalities, and even some contradictions. Then make up the cults worshipping them, possibly trying to pidgeonhole the gods into neat pantheons.

It depends on whether or not gods were truly created first or whether worship somehow created them.

I like the way real pantheons address real human needs, and people don't pick a single god to worship, but respect them all... just perhaps favouring one of them.

IMC the most popular deity is Metra, a goddess whose domains are plant, nature [which I am declaring includes agriculture], and love... because that's who farmers would want to worship. Of course, the gods stopped answering their priests a long time ago, so it isn't a serious issue I suppose :)

I think that it's better than coming up with a bunch of deities who meet the needs of evil cultists and a few adventurers, but don't meet the desires of the common people.
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
NoOneofConsequence said:
I realise that the above is more history than myth so how about this.

Great Cosmology btw

but in reply

the real question is where does myth end and history begin - this is the realm of Legend!

For instance IMC the Giants (who are a single race) beleive that they were the first Mortal Race created and that the Legendary Giants (beings standing 50 - 100 ft tall) were chosen specifically to help to complete the Creation of the World - it was they who raised mountains and dug river valleys and whose footsteps filled to become lakes and seas

*besides Sea Giants (who are 50 ft long including tail) the tallest terrestial Giants imc are 20 ft (and sleep for years) and most giants (90%) are around 8 - 12 ft tall

Also I use something of a 'biological' cosmology so that Mortals are quite literally the 'descendants' of the (pro)-creator gods who are in turn children of Earth and Sky

(thats one reason why my world has so many creatures with celestials and feindish templates attached - everything is descended from the gods some just happen to manifest signs of this heritage...


Originally posted by CCamfield
It depends on whether or not gods were truly created first or whether worship somehow created them.

Its also possible of course that after millenia of sitting around being 'themselves' the gods start taking an interest in the lives of mortals and happen to notice that when they use their powers to ensure a bountiful harvest the mortals thank them for their efforts and hold huge festivals and give sacrifices which makes the gods happy.
As such the gods continue using that shtick and eventually Persephone the Dedicated Hero 134/Charismatic Hero 120 becomes Persephone goddess of Agriculture

perhaps the gods are playing a cosmic roleplaying game where instead of XP they gain followers in order to level up and their Domains are like Divine Prestige Classes

Posiden "cool I'm going to take the Ruler of the Oceans PrC"
Zeus "you can't you need another 799 ranks in Professional Fishermen"
Ares "this is boring when do we get to fight the Titans?"
 
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Mercule

Adventurer
Re: Re: Fitting the Mythology to the World

CCamfield said:
It depends on whether or not gods were truly created first or whether worship somehow created them.

Or if the nature of the gods influenced/formed humans perceptions about the world.

That's how I've always assumed it happenned.
 

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