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Five Alignments?

Phasmus

First Post
I have a theory about the new alignment system. I think this is primarily an elaboration on what a few other people have already expressed.

I propose that the new alignment system is linear in the Good/Evil spectrum and that WotC's mistake was in using law/chaos terminology at all. The classical concepts of law and chaos from the old alignment system are not represented here. Instead we get two new alignments capping the old axis of Good/Evil. Good, Unaligned and Evil are more or less understood, so I will cover my interpretation of the additions.

Lawful Good says nothing about a character's tendency toward external law, but instead indicates that the character is uncompromising and axiomatic in its adherence to good. A 'Good' character might be able to make a few exceptions, but a Lawful Good character will never willingly deviate from its own moral code.

Example: I have a 3.5e character who is Neutral Good. All he cares about is going out and saving the folks from certain mind-twistingly awful threats to reality, and he'll happily work with or against any set of laws, creeds or customs he encounters so long as it helps him achieve this. In 4e he would be Lawful Good. He knows what's right and what's wrong (or he thinks he does) and he's seen the results of the 'wrong' way, so he will never ever knowingly deviate from the light, even to save his own skin.

Similarly, Chaotic Evil individuals have no particular preference for using rule of law or bloodthirsty madness to bring about their dark ends, they just care about causing as much horror as possible. Where an Evil being might be content to do evil for gain and get a kick out of harming others when convenient, a Chaotic Evil individual is wholly dedicated to inflicting harm just for the sake of doing so and might take perverse glee in ending itself if it gets to take out a lot of people at the same time in a suitably awful way.

Example: Consider the stereotypical despotic Archmage who rules his miserable subjects with a meticulously crafted, ruthlessly efficient iron fist. He always keeps his word and never breaks a treaty. Textbook 3.5e Lawful Evil. But let's take a closer look... why are his subject's miserable? He derives no benefit from crushing them so thoroughly, indeed, keeping up the country's demoralizing awfulness is expensive both in terms of money and national security. He's being massively evil at some cost to himself just because he can. In 4th Edition, he's Chaotic Evil.

This seemingly futile speculation on matters that will (theoretically) be concretely resolved in a few days isn't totally pointless. For my part, if I don't like the party line from the core books, I'll probably use the system outlined above instead.
 

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The Little Raven

First Post
LoneWolf23 said:
I think it would've been better to either dump Alignment entirely, or just turn it into an "Allegiance" style mechanic as in D20Modern, representing a character's dedication to a concept, rather then something like a hardwired behavior.

And with "Allegiances," we'd be facing threads full of complaints about how Wizards is forcing assumptions on people by placing example allegiances in the core books.

And if they didn't put example allegiances, we'd get complaints about allegiances being some vague system that hardly makes a difference (or that is "nothing new").

You know what they say... you can't please all the people all the time... and if they're gamers, odds are, you can't please them any of the time.
 

pawsplay

Hero
Mouseferatu said:
Why is everyone assuming a perfectly linear continuum, anyway? Where did the notion that either G or LG must be "more good" than the other, or that E or CE must be "more evil," come from?

Well, why not name the alignments just Chaotic and Evil, then?
 

Sojorn

First Post
pawsplay said:
Well, why not name the alignments just Chaotic and Evil, then?
He pretty much said that his preference for names would have been Lawful/Good/Evil/Chaotic/Unaligned.

Not sure what exactly he meant though as if that more accurately describes it in his mind, or if there was some other reason for it.
 

Sojorn said:
He pretty much said that his preference for names would have been Lawful/Good/Evil/Chaotic/Unaligned.

Not sure what exactly he meant though as if that more accurately describes it in his mind, or if there was some other reason for it.

I was speaking purely hypothetically. If we're going to have a four-point system (with "unaligned" in the center), I'd prefer L/C/E/G.

As to whether those terms could accurately be applied to the system as written, well, I'm not sure I dare get too deeply into that. ;) I guess the answer depends on how one is willing to define "lawful" and "chaotic" for purposes of the game.
 

Sojorn

First Post
Mouseferatu said:
I was speaking purely hypothetically. If we're going to have a four-point system (with "unaligned" in the center), I'd prefer L/C/E/G.

As to whether those terms could accurately be applied to the system as written, well, I'm not sure I dare get too deeply into that. ;) I guess the answer depends on how one is willing to define "lawful" and "chaotic" for purposes of the game.
Ok, I think I understand, but clearly you have to be choosing your words carefully :)
 

WhatGravitas

Explorer
Phasmus said:
I propose that the new alignment system is linear in the Good/Evil spectrum and that WotC's mistake was in using law/chaos terminology at all. The classical concepts of law and chaos from the old alignment system are not represented here. Instead we get two new alignments capping the old axis of Good/Evil. Good, Unaligned and Evil are more or less understood, so I will cover my interpretation of the additions.
So a better idea would have been naming it like that, perhaps?

Exalted (Good) <-> Good <-> Unaligned <-> Evil <-> Vile (Evil)

Doesn't look too stupid. But I'm no fan of alignments in general, so YMMV.

Cheers, LT.
 

Sojorn said:
Ok, I think I understand, but clearly you have to be choosing your words carefully :)

You have no idea. I think, on the day the books officially hit shelves, I may come on here and post a multi-thousand word screed just to celebrate the fact that I can. ;)
 

Lackhand

First Post
pawsplay said:
Well, why not name the alignments just Chaotic and Evil, then?
Because they're chaotic and evil, mebbe? I mean, if it were just "Chaotic", it would imply no evil at all, and that seems wrong.
 

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