Planescape Fixing Planescape

[Paul Farquhar]

Most of this seems to be problems with legacy Planescape.

Indeed - the popular and critically acclaimed legacy Planescape.

I can't see there being much traction for changing it. Indeed, if there are any objections to the update, it's that it's not as grimdark of the original.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Most of this seems to be problems with legacy Planescape.

I haven't gotten to the newer stuff yet, it's why I reserve the second post.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Indeed - the popular and critically acclaimed legacy Planescape.

I can't see there being much traction for changing it. Indeed, if there are any objections to the update, it's that it's not as grimdark of the original.

Planescape wasn't popular, the Planes were, but Planescape itself wasn't, at least at release. It's popularity has grown over the yet, but the Faction system was deeply flawed, which to be fair it was trying to fix when it got cancelled.

 

[Quickleaf]

While I don’t share the concerns expressed so far, I do highly recommend searching for the Planar Renovation Project - it was a fan effort spanning both Mimir.net and Planewalker.com to breathe new life into the Outer Planes with an eye towards channeling abstract ideas toward usability at the game table. Great stuff.

 

[LordEntrails]

I haven't gotten to the newer stuff yet, it's why I reserve the second post.

So your writing about critiques of the old stuff without the OP saying so?

 

[Henadic Theologian]

So your writing about critiques of the old stuff without the OP saying so?

The flaws of the old stuff have carried over to the new stuff. I can add a statement about also fixing old stuff they carrier forward if you wish?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The flaws of the old stuff have carried over to the new stuff. I can add a statement about also fixing old stuff they carrier forward if you wish?

It would help if you actually understood the point of the factions in the old stuff. Which you clearly don't.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

With the caveat that I don't have access to the new Planescape quite yet (pre-ordered, but not early access pre-ordered), the Fated aren't Sigil's IRS, they're old-school tax collectors. It's a small, but important difference.

They're not impersonal bureaucrats you routinely send a packet of paperwork and a check to annually, they're thugs that knock on your door, tell you that you owe X gp in taxes, and compel you to pay up with threats of repossessing your property (land is very much at a premium in Sigil) and/or having you arrested for tax evasion (and back in 2e, the Mercykillers had "streamlined" all criminal sentences down to either a decade of hard labor or execution, so that's hardly an idle threat).

Their control over the Hall of Records means that they control (and charge for) access to what would otherwise be public records and information. The deed that says you own the land you own? On file in the Hall of Records. The tax records showing that you've paid what you owe on time and in full? In the Hall of Records. The people who can "find" documents showing that you owe back taxes and/or don't actually own the property you're living/working in? In the Hall of Records.

The aftermath chapter of Faction War even suggests that nearly all of the tax revenue the Fated collects is eaten up by their administrative overhead and consequently siphoned off into the Faction's coffers, with little to none of it actually being used for the betterment of the city.

It's a formalized protection racket operating under the guise of tax collection. The Fated take what they think they can get away with.

Yeah that fits "mogul" types.

They're just what happens when some of the organized crime finds a way to make their racket legal and state-sanctioned.

None of this seems like problems at all, to me, much less signs that wotc put out a bad product.

 

[LordEntrails]

May I suggest next time you prepare your in-depth post offline first. Get the whole thing done. Then you can copy and paste into your new thread and have it all up and done in seconds, and it won't get split up with people responding between your posts etc.

 

[Willie the Duck]

Transcendental Order is completely naval gazers that matter to no one and can be completely ignored.

What do you mean by “naval gazers” and how does it apply to the factions?

na·vel-gaz·ing
/ˈnāvəl ɡāziNG/

noun

1. self-indulgent or excessive contemplation of oneself or a single issue, at the expense of a wider view.
   "he lapsed into his customary navel-gazing"

adjective

1. engaging in or characterized by self-indulgent or excessive contemplation of oneself or a single issue, at the expense of a wider view.
   "navel-gazing New Age types"

Did... did you just respond to a question about how a term you used applies to the discussion at hand by posting the dictionary definition?

May I suggest next time you prepare your in-depth post offline first. Get the whole thing done. Then you can copy and paste into your new thread and have it all up and done in seconds, and it won't get split up with people responding between your posts etc.

Agreed. Starting with an actually framed argument towards a specific thesis with as many of the relevant points as possible being given at least an initial fleshing out would have greatly helped this endeavor.