Fixing the weretouched master

[Navar]

Hellcow (Keith Baker) Said:

Yes, agreed, Brekki; I wasn't actually trying to get into a discussion of the lycanthropes themselves, and I apologize if my comment offended you. But the point you riase is exactly the point I was making. The werebear is a more powerful creature than the wererat, just as the bear is more powerful than the rat. If the stat modifiers were perfectly balanced, the weretouched master would either fail to reflect the power of the werebear, or be far more powerful than the wererat he is supposedly duplicating. That is why I would not try to balance the statistic modifiers; the power of the bear is an accurate depiction of the werebear itself. Instead, I would look at providing the weaker forms with a minor additional ability reflecting the lycanthrope it is duplicating. For example, a wererat could spread filth fever with its bite, darkvision while shifted, or gain weapon finesse as a bonus feat (not that Weapon Finesse necessarily balances against +16 Str: I'm throwing out ideas, not carefully thought out solutions). The goal of the weretouched master is to resemble the true lycanthrope; the question is how best to do that in a way in which no form gets cheated, given that the creatures are *not* equally powerful.

Give this quote, how would people fix the weretouched master? What ideas would ballance the +16 str of the Bear, and the +12 str of the Tiger? I think that poison might be good, but there must be better ideas that fit the theme of the beasts. Maybe 2x duration? Skill bonuses? I really like the class, and I would like to see it played in my games, but I would like all of the forms balanced.

 

[teitan]

I would personally leave it as is. The shifters aren't full blooded lycanthropes but descendants of the lycanthropes so their impure blood is going to result in a weakened version of their progenitors abilities. Also, do you really want to let one PC get that sort of advantage out of a prestige class? I think the WM is balanced as is...

Jason

 

[~Johnny~]

I understand the philosophy that went into the class -- reproducing the abilities of creatures with uneven benefits -- but stat differences like that can be hard to justify with a simple "I'm choosing to be a wererat for roleplaying reasons."

I think the most straightforward way to handle this is with durations. Just make the wererat form more accessible more often, or for longer periods of time, or both. I don't have the class right in front of me, so I can't make more precise recommendations than that, but I do agree that some of the class' options, as written, are underpowered.

 

[Navar]

This is a good idea, maybe give the lesser shifters 2x durration, and maybe 2 extra shifts per day?

 

[Savage Wombat]

What if you had a minimum level requirement based on the HD of the were-form in question? Either for entering the class, or using the power?

 

[Navar]

Still not really a fix though, because a level 5 WM/level 10 Fighter is going to be the same anyway. Keith already said that he thought the bear was ballance at that level, the problem is the rat is very under powered.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I'm pretty sure that I'd go for duration. One way of doing it is:

Bear x1
Tiger x2
Wolverine x3
Wolf x4
Boar x5
Rat x6

- not perfect by a long short, especially since higher CON boosts the duration of the shifts anyway.

Another option

Bear & Tiger have shifts of normal duration

Wolverine and Wolf have shifts that last in minutes (or 10's of minutes?) instead of rounds

Boar and Rat have shifts that last in 10's of minutes (or hours?) instead of rounds.


(Just thinking about the druids who will be wildshaping into Large creatures for 10hours at a time at this point)

Another option would be to give bonus shifts for the weaker forms:
Bear - no bonus
Tiger +1 shift
Wolverine +2 shifts
Wolf +3 shifts
Boar +4 shifts
Rat +5 shifts


Of these options I think I'd be likely to go for the middle one, big jumps in duration for the weaker forms.

Cheers

 

[humble minion]

To veer off-topic for a minute, I always get really depressed when I see threads about 'fixing' a rules issue in a product that is not yet available in my country...

 

[Navar]

I tend to agree with PS about the middle option being the best. I think that Tiger and Bear are ballanced together. I think that increasing the durration is a good thing.

And HM sorry, you can always order it online.

I was hoping that someone would suggest some other abilities that they could get (like a poision bite for the rat, or a powerful charge for the boar or something (any thoughts on those kinds of abilities?)

 

[Driddle]

Isn't a bear naturally more powerful than a rat anyway? Where's the problem?