He thinks it's too high powered to remove all defense bonuses. He says that being flatfooted should only effect a character when he isn't aware of the other combatant (or isn't aware of the danger).
He says if (using the example characters above) Caelis and Thrallan are in an argument, shouting matching, that turns into a combat, that initiative is thrown but both characters are not considered flat-flooted no matter who wins the nish throw.
I showed him the rule in the book, but it doesn't matter. He thinks its an overpowered, bad rule that needs to be changed. I've got three players in my group, and now he's infected one of the others. Now, I've got two players who think the rule is overpowered.
I like the rule, myself.
I have to wonder who it's overpowered
for. In the scenario of
Caelis and Thrallan, I suppose I could see the point of the both of them being already ready to strike each other, but that's up to the DM is such a situation arises. The point of initiative is to get first blood, which has the potential of being a very dangerous blow. Lowered AC means higher chance of getting damage. Especially with Power Attack. Also, if one of them is a Rouge, well...you know what I mean.
Getting the highest Initiative is important to the PC for just this reason, for if the monsters get it first, they could get hurt. But if the PCs get it, happy town. Taking that away takes away the point of needing a high initiative altogether, unless it's to stop someone's action in the very first round.
On speaking from experience, I once played a game that dealt away with the whole flat footed before your 1st turn. Due to us being new, however, I believe the reasoning was so we wouldn't be bogged down by all the rules at once. Mind you, we never changed it back, making the Rouge a much weaker striker. Mind you again, he also only allowed a single Sneak Attack per attack, even if the target was still flat footed or flanked from your previous attack. He may have just hated Rouges.
Well, if they are mature then I suggest you have a nice discussion with them over pizza (that you pay for) and soda (that you pay for, hint hint) in your house at your table as to how it is overpowered, and how they would feel about the enemy receiving the same powerup as them.
I'm all behind this path of logic (though it may hurt your wallet). Present scenarios where it works out for their favor, and how they would lose it if the other mans ruling went through. Have scenarios be given to you as well, and have it be kept in mind the 1st round of combat is meant to be decisive and dangerous, for the PCs
and the NPCs, which is something they should like.