Flesh to Stone spell - why the poor rating

[Hawk Diesel]

I see all that, and I still think Flesh to Stone is woefully underpowered. 6th level and all. I wouldn't use it even in a 4th level spell slot, because CON is a garbage save to target.

I agree, hence why I adjusted how the spell works in my games in an above post.

 

[Gadget]

There are a couple of components to consider when comparing Levitate to Flesh to Stone. For one, there is the weight limit. A 500 lb weight limit means that only creatures roughly twice as big as humans would be affected. So giants, dragons, even large bugbears would be unaffected by the spell.

Additionally, there are restraints with space. If you are fighting in a tight space or anywhere with a ceiling, you are going to allow a creature a way of maneuvering despite the spell. This is especially true if you are fighting a creature with large tentacles. Plus there is nothing to stop it from grappling someone and continuing to attack, even if it can't run or maneuver as well as it might like. This doesn't even consider bad guys that might be spell casters with access to fly (a likely target for anything that targets a Con Save), which would completely negate the spell.

Not to mention, if done right, the Flesh to Stone spell has a chance to be effectively permanent, while Levitate will always eventually end.

Finally, the restraint condition as you mention is incredibly powerful. Target has disadvantage on attacks and Dex saves, while your allies all have advantage. That is pretty great. That is effectively -5 to all attacks the creature makes, and +5 to all attacks made against the creature.

You know what's even better than restraining a creature? Paralyzing (or petrifying) them. You know, like Hold Monster does a whole level lower. Granted, that spell is a Wis save vs a Con save, so different target preferences. Also, the 2nd level Maximilian's Earthen Grasp also restrains the target and does damage. A Strength save rather than Con this time. I'm not sure the Save every round aspect of the lower level spells combined with the chance for Flesh To Stone to be permanent makes up the difference. For players, I'm not sure this makes it worthwhile, but I can see how it is nice when the spell is used against them.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

You know what's even better than restraining a creature? Paralyzing (or petrifying) them. You know, like Hold Monster does a whole level lower. Granted, that spell is a Wis save vs a Con save, so different target preferences. Also, the 2nd level Maximilian's Earthen Grasp also restrains the target and does damage. A Strength save rather than Con this time. I'm not sure the Save every round aspect of the lower level spells combined with the chance for Flesh To Stone to be permanent makes up the difference. For players, I'm not sure this makes it worthwhile, but I can see how it is nice when the spell is used against them.

That... is an interesting point. I'm wondering though, if the ground is not made of earth (a stone castle floor or cave for example) would this spell still function?

I mean, it seems balanced against Hold Person which is also level 2. Paralyzed is better than restrained, so the damage from MEG balances that out. The fact that the target of MEG needs to use their action to save puts it about equal to HP as their save is at the end of their turn. You can't up cast MEG like you can with HP, but that is balanced by the fact that you can switch the target as long as the spell's duration remains.

So (using my version of Flesh to Stone above) how does that compare with MEG? Well, first failed save removes the target of FtS completely out of the fight for at least 3 rounds, possibly permanently. At worst, target is automatically restrained at least 3 rounds, but saving does not require an action like MEG. Given the higher level, it might not be unreasonable to require an action to save. And the spell becomes permanent either if 3 failed saved or not getting 3 successful saves by the end of the duration.

But then, perhaps a more important question is, does MEG negate Otto's Irresistible Dance? MEG seems to do everything OID does, except it's a Str save, doesn't matter if you are immune to charm, doesn't make you use your move action, and the target can be changed. From my perspective, MEG seems superior to OID.

But in MEG, it specifically states that the hand is medium sized. Does that mean RAI might be that the spell could only effectively be used against a medium sized creature? Perhaps large, but then a large target would get advantage on the save?