Fluff, Rules, and the Cleric/Warlock Multiclass (WITH POLL!)

[cbwjm]

Nothing in the rules prevents it. Fluff doesn't really prohibit it either. Some would probably encourage it i.e. a cleric of asmodeus/fiend warlock or cleric of an elven deity/fey warlock. A lot of clerics I can see secretly delving into forbidden arts without the knowledge of the church. Also, there isn't really a penalty (at least not a mechanical one) for a cleric turning away from their god, not like in earlier editions where they lost their cleric abilities. Now a cleric can get invested with power and then turn around and flip their god off, keeping the divine gifts they have been given.

 

[MarkB]

And I imagine your answer to that question informs your answer to the question of if/why a Cleric/Warlock multiclass is possible.

Probably the other way around, since I already voted in the poll before I ever saw or contemplated the question.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Sunseeker]

Sure, your patron would just be an agent for your god.

 

[cbwjm]

Interesting! Just to dive into that for a second ....

So in your games, if a Cleric completely renounces their deity, you know, like, "I, Foolharidious, renounce Zeus as a good-for-nothing who can't get his fat behind off of Olympus, and probably doesn't even exist," then he still retains his powers? Even at, say, level 20? Even, you know, divine intervention?

Just trying to get an idea where the whole "that which is not forbidden, is allowed" line is drawn. It seems a little counterintuitive to me, but I'm open to hearing about it.

That's just the way the mechanics of the game works nowadays. WotC has removed any real penalty for denouncing your god to the point where if a player running a cleric decides to turn against their god and church there is no penalty to it. I think it's been like that since 4e.

Having said that, you can let a player know in your 5e game that that isn't going to fly and that you will lose all of your cleric abilities other than basic proficiencies until you atone, but that would essentially be a houserule.

As for divine intervention, who knows how it works if you've turned against your god. It still does, might not be the god you were following granting it but it still works.

 

[Charlaquin]

Probably the other way around, since I already voted in the poll before I ever saw or contemplated the question.

You may not have consciously contemplated the question, but you still thought of Clerics and Warlocks as different classes, and what you thought about each of them, and how that was different, would have been important factors in how you consciously thought about if and why they should be able to multiclass together.

 

[MarkB]

You may not have consciously contemplated the question, but you still thought of Clerics and Warlocks as different classes, and what you thought about each of them, and how that was different, would have been important factors in how you consciously thought about if and why they should be able to multiclass together.

"Why", yes. "If", no. I don't ever come to any rules-legal combination with a hard "no" in mind. As far as I'm concerned, it's up to the player to come up with a reason why something works, and I may or may not consider it a good reason - but I'm not going in with the preconception that it's impossible.

 

[Charlaquin]

"Why", yes. "If", no. I don't ever come to any rules-legal combination with a hard "no" in mind. As far as I'm concerned, it's up to the player to come up with a reason why something works, and I may or may not consider it a good reason - but I'm not going in with the preconception that it's impossible.

Sure, just why then. My point is, at the heart of the question “should Multiclass Cleric/Warlocks be possible?” is the question, “what’s the difference between a Cleric and a Warlock anyway?” If your answer is that the only difference that matters is the mechanics and it’s up to the players to justify the fluff of their own characters, you have your answer to the multiclass question - yes it should be allowed, because it’s legal within the rules and that’s all that matters. That’s a valid answer.

 

[TwoSix]

Since this has come up before, I'll just quote myself.

I'm sorry, but that seems like an extremely limited perspective on what backstories are "allowable". It doesn't mean ignoring the background, it means embracing it and shaping it into an interesting premise. And honestly, I find your comment about "jealous gods" to presuppose concepts about the nature of religion in the game that I do not share.

1) It's quite possible for a pact patron and a god to have their goals in alignment. The cleric/warlock in question might be a handpicked agent of the god's proxy. A cleric of Asmodeus / fiend pact warlock makes perfect sense to be aligned, as well as fey pact warlock / cleric of Corellon or any other god of the Seldarine.

2) Clerical power need not be granted with any particular strings attached. The remote dieties of Eberron don't particularly care what you do with divine magic, for example (and are PHB official).

3) Likewise, a warlock pact may not be a choice on the part of the PC. Perhaps a particular child is born into a family curse of a pact with a devil (I'm thinking of Moorcock's Von Bek family as an example), but turns to the church in order to maintain his hold on his very soul. The chain pact familiar could be a very literal "devil on his shoulder". The pact sword could represent the constant temptation to violence. Perhaps every time the character strays from the righteous path, he is granted more power to further his temptation (represented by gaining more warlock levels).

In general, backstory should be deployed to further the character's development and conflict, and provide new narrative hooks, and never to limit a player's choice of mechanical expression.

 

[TwoSix]

Interesting! Just to dive into that for a second ....

So in your games, if a Cleric completely renounces their deity, you know, like, "I, Foolharidious, renounce Zeus as a good-for-nothing who can't get his fat behind off of Olympus, and probably doesn't even exist," then he still retains his powers? Even at, say, level 20? Even, you know, divine intervention?

Just because you're done with your deity, doesn't mean your deity is done with you.