D&D 5E Followup on "Everyone Starts at First Level"

[MasterTrancer]

Sure a 1st level PC CAN survive a fireball IF the spell rolls average AND they make a save. The point is that damage scaling in 5E goes up abruptly at 5th.

In my own game, my PCs are now 5th, but they recently took a liking to a 1st level "henchmen" who they bring along everywhere-- like a lucky charm. He is knocked unconscious every single fight, and has only survived due to a few lucky die rolls. I'm not a killer DM by any means. I'm just putting the pcs in level appropriate fights.

It sounds like this works in a lot of campaigns. But I can't imagine how without fudging rolls and creating soft fights.

Sure! But how many 5th-tailored fights has to endure to level up to 2nd level? And then to 3rd?

 

[ExploderWizard]

Maybe I don't understand the CR system, but shouldn't a CR 8 monster completely obliterate a level 1 or level 3 character?

A single character? Most likely yes. A whole 1st-3rd level party probably not. Such a fight will be very tough for a normal size party of those levels but it is far from un-winnable.

I love that 5E has more wiggle room for threat ranges. Pile on enough regular orcs and a mid-high level party will still have something to fear and could get their butts handed to them depending on the circumstances of the encounter.

 

[Kalshane]

When I first started running 2e, I did the "everyone starts at 1st" thing. My younger brother went through about a dozen characters because of that philosophy. Eventually I started bringing in new characters a level or two below party level, which cut down on the revolving door of death that occurred as soon as a character died. I really don't see the appeal of going back to it.

I also find the "but they won't stay first level for long" defense kind of silly. If the character is going to jump up half a dozen levels over 2-3 sessions (provided they survive) what purpose does starting them at 1st actually serve?

The "start at the beginning of the current tier" compromise, I can kind of understand.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Sure! But how many 5th-tailored fights has to endure to level up to 2nd level? And then to 3rd?

According to the encounter guidelines, one, with 200 extra exp. The second moderate fight will see you at 3rd level with 100 exp to spare. By the end of the 'day' you'll be 4th. Of course, that assumes the DM follows said guidelines, and also lets you level up the moment you have the exp.

At higher levels it gets harder on you, of course.

 

[77IM]

It sounds like the only problem with low-level PCs is survivability, and that it is mostly a question of hit points and/or massive damage.

So I suggest if you want to try ES@1 but others in your group don't, that you address that problem directly. The least intrusive house rule would be to simply remove the rule for dying outright from massive damage -- anybody who drops to 0 gets to dramatically bleed out. Alternately, instead of making the instant-death threshold equal to your max HP, make it some fixed or slowly growing value, such as 20 + 1/4 your max HP (that may also correct for the issue of high-level PCs being pretty much impossible to kill outright via massive damage). Or, give the noobs@1 some hand-wavy "get out of death free" points; like 1 point per level of the highest-level party member, and you can spend one to succeed on a death save or not die from massive damage, or something like that. My favorite house rule for this is to just give the low-level PCs the hit points and hit dice they would have if they were the same level as the rest of the party, although some people may feel that makes the game TOO easy on them. A rules-legal way to support the noobs@1 is for a high-level PC to take Inspiring Leader; the DM could even hand that out as a magic item or blessing or something. Finally, the DM could just fudge things, making sure that dangerous enemies just don't target the low-level PCs as often.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Another gem to lift from old-school when going ES@1 could be the back-up character. Have several 1st level characters ready to go. Maybe the first one doesn't survive the first fight of the session, but if the second one survives the next fight, he's 2nd level and harder to kill.

 

[SirAntoine]

Starting at 1st level is what any serious player should expect, in terms of long term play where it's their character. It's just more fun. All of the choices you make at 1st level big impacts, and you can really take the role seriously in terms of imagining them in their setting and understanding the road they're about to take. I'd recommend slowing level advancement down by x3 or x5, at least, for the low levels (where it's accelerated already by the book). A character tree can help also.

 

[Sunseeker]

Starting at 1st level is what any serious player should expect, in terms of long term play where it's their character. It's just more fun. All of the choices you make at 1st level big impacts, and you can really take the role seriously in terms of imagining them in their setting and understanding the road they're about to take. I'd recommend slowing level advancement down by x3 or x5, at least, for the low levels (where it's accelerated already by the book). A character tree can help also.

This statement is heavily loaded with assumptions and judgements about the game and how people should play it. It really strikes me as an attempt to tell everyone who plays differently that they're having badwrongfun.

 

[SirAntoine]

I embrace the position, and I want others to feel they can, too.

 

[Catwithafez]

D&D had rules for bringing in characters of lower level to a higher-level party. I believe those are in the DMG2. They work fine in my experience.

In D&D 5e, don't forget that you're going to blast through the apprentice tiers really quickly when travelling with a significantly higher-level party. For example, a party of 3x 10th-level PCs and 1x 1st-level PC goes up against a Medium 10th-level encounter (4800 XP). When that encounter is wrapped up, our 1st-level PC now has 1200 XP - already 3rd-level plus change. Four more such encounters and you're at 5th-level while the rest of the party is likely still lingering at 10th-level.

(I'm reading through the thread from the start so apologies if this has already been covered.)

This assumes that your group allows multiple level gains per encounter. Doing so has never made sense to me regardless of which edition it was. It breaks the immersion. One hostile encounter doesn't make seasoned veterans.