Footwork Lure - Sliding Big Creatures

[Obryn]

Do you also rule that the movement must be more or less directly into the square?

If not, the player could state that the creatures moves around in such a way that any of it's outside squares could be first to enter the target square.

If you allowed that, why couldn't you slide the creature in an 18-square-long loop?

I think it pretty much has to be the shortest route, or it gets silly.

-O

 

[radja]

not only does it get silly, it gets unbalanced. just slide the enemy through the wall of fire 79 times(for 247d6+456 fire damage). if you allow complete control over the slide, you essentially create an infinite damage combo, since the distance of the slide is undetermined. infinite damage is bad.

 

[Thundershield]

not only does it get silly, it gets unbalanced. just slide the enemy through the wall of fire 79 times(for 247d6+456 fire damage). if you allow complete control over the slide, you essentially create an infinite damage combo, since the distance of the slide is undetermined. infinite damage is bad.

And that would be why I rule that forced movement that doesn't specify a number of squares uses the least amount of squares possible and is direct.

If you try to polearm Footwork Lure a huge monster between two trees, it won't go all the way around the forest to end up next to you - the forced movement simply won't work. Then it's up to the Fighter in question to not abuse the power. It's meant as a positioning tool, not as a mean to create absurd situations or marathon-like slides.

 

[kerbarian]

The house rule I use for this is:

If an ability allows you to slide a target an unlimited number of squares to a destination, you must slide the target by the shortest path that allows it to reach the destination, and no square of the slide may move the target's center farther away (by Euclidean distance) from the center of the destination space.

This still lets you slide the target around wall corners, but other than that it's pretty much a pull.

By RAW, you can slide the guy miles away off to yonder mountain and back again, as long as he ends up in the space you left. Use it on your allies to let them scout at near-light-speed .

 

[DracoSuave]

This is one of those 'use common sense' situations. If the player wants to use the power to slide the fiend through the entire dungeon of traps and hazards, he's breaking the bag-o-rats rule. Technically, it's 'by the rules', but technically is not trumped by common sense. So the DM is well within his rights to go 'No, that's stupid.'

Bag o Rats is the best anti-rules-abuse rule. If it's an abuse, you don't have to allow it.

 

[Pasus Nauran]

The house rule I use for this is:

If an ability allows you to slide a target an unlimited number of squares to a destination, you must slide the target by the shortest path that allows it to reach the destination, and no square of the slide may move the target's center farther away (by Euclidean distance) from the center of the destination space.

This is essentially what my player and I have decided upon.

"The creature should always be slid in the most efficient clear path to get to the fighter's former location, and stop as soon as it fulfills the overlap requirement. The distance of the slide is also capped the creature's best available movement rate."

This allows the fighter to lure a foe around a corner and such, but prevents ridiculous pathing-around-the-map potential, and also prevents the creatures from taking a long route to get to the fighter if impassable terrain is between them.

...

On a side note: did WotC even bother to playtest Martial Power? I know it was the first 4e splat book for players, but there just seems to much broken (or at least especially vague) about it.

 

[CovertOps]

This is essentially what my player and I have decided upon.

"The creature should always be slid in the most efficient clear path to get to the fighter's former location, and stop as soon as it fulfills the overlap requirement. The distance of the slide is also capped the creature's best available movement rate."

This allows the fighter to lure a foe around a corner and such, but prevents ridiculous pathing-around-the-map potential, and also prevents the creatures from taking a long route to get to the fighter if impassable terrain is between them.

...

On a side note: did WotC even bother to playtest Martial Power? I know it was the first 4e splat book for players, but there just seems to much broken (or at least especially vague) about it.

I thought of a scenario where IMO the slide should just fail and I think your wording covers the situation. Tell me what you think.

Imagine a fighter with a reach weapon attacking a Large monster between two trees like this:
x = open squares
F = Fighter
T = Tree/blocking terrain
M = Monster

xFx
TxT
xMM
xMM

If the fighter hits with Footwork Lure and steps in between the trees then the monster has to go around the trees to get to F because he can't go through. It would take 7 squares of movement by my count to do that and it seems ridiculous even if the monster has a move or 7 or more.

 

[ST]

I don't know if this helps or not, but I tend to picture sliding a large creature as repositioning yourself so that its own body is in the way of it attacking you, so it shifts position slightly to get a better angle to you. There's no need for the monster to have moved against its will or have been forcibly pushed (in terms of the game fiction).

Using this kind of description makes it pretty implausible for a creature to reposition itself in such a way that it falls off a cliff, or something, so it'd probably do something like "it stops short at the edge".

 

[Saeviomagy]

On a side note: did WotC even bother to playtest Martial Power? I know it was the first 4e splat book for players, but there just seems to much broken (or at least especially vague) about it.

The guy that did the fighter seems to have been pretty hopeless.

The guys that did the rogue and the ranger seem to be pretty much spot on, to the point that the ranger beast stuff is more balanced than that in the original book (because it avoids all the stupid double-dipping on damage bonuses that multi-attack powers get).

 

[Amphimir Míriel]

I'll just chime in and say that the reason I see that the movement in Footwork Lure is a slide instead of a pull is because it allows the following scenario:

Lets imagine that in the following grid, "F" is the Fighter and "M" the monster.

XXXXX
XFMXX
XXXXX

The Fighter uses Footwork Lure, which says he first attacks, and then shifts one square. Lets say he shifts sideways.

XFXXX
XXMXX
XXXXX

Now, the monster is slid into the square the fighter left.

XFXXX
XMXXX
XXXXX

Technically speaking, this would be impossible with a Pull, since the monster would be at the same distance from the Fighter in the starting and stopping squares, so he can't pull him closer to him.

(I am writing this lacking food and sleep, so forgive me if my English is unintellegible)