For the good of video games, Anthem needs to fail hard

[Jester David]

The OP's attitude is a bit of a trigger for me...
In part because it's so spectacularly unoriginal.

The hate for Anthem is an amazing example of the Internet Hivemind. Groupthink intersecting with a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Everyone was hating on Anthem from the announcement trailer. And in the weeks before the open demo/ public beta stress test. And, unsurprisingly, during the stress test. And now, shocker of shockers, at release. It was "cool" to hate Anthem because it was "cool" to hate EA and to want to see BioWare fail.

Why?
Several reasons.

First is the elephant in the room. The small overly vocal minority that didn't like the ending of Mass Effect 3. Despite only 42% of players actually having finished the game. 58% of gamers never saw that ending except in YouTube videos. Even if three-quarters of the people who beat the game hated the ending (and it was probably less than that), that's still only 30% of the people who bought the game. But it was probably far less.
Vocal minority.

Then there's Andromeda. Despite being BioWare in name only. It wasn't good, so people came down hard on the studio.

There's also the GamerGate factor BioWare has strong female characters and a high percentage of queer characters. And rejects the idea that all female characters in the game need to be there as sexual objects of affection for male players. There's a lot of hate aimed at BioWare for that. Because hating that's what incels do.

It suddenly because cool to hate BioWare and want to see it fall. Because people like that. They like to watch things crumble. People fail. As someone once said:

The one thing they love more than a hero is to see a hero fail, fall, die trying. In spite of everything you've done for them, eventually, they will hate you.

Because BioWare was so popular, so beloved, people want to see it fall now.


The response to Anthem is just a whole bunch of unoriginal followers tripping over themselves to repeat what they heard online and echo someone else's opinion.

I bought the game mostly as a reaction to the sheep-like response to the game. To make-up my own mind.
I'm only a couple hours into Anthem and so far it's okay. Not a masterpiece, but it's fun. I'm enjoying it. It's a solid B-. A 65% at worst. It's enough fun that I want to keep playing.

But the worst part is that it's so self defeating. Stupidly self defeating.
So much hate is aimed at EA and the big AAA studios for only doing sequels, forced multiplayer, PvP and no story, and loot boxes. But Anthem is new IP, has largely optional multiplayer, is PvE only with a decent story, and there's no loot boxes. Heck, there's barely any microtransactions, and you it's cosmetic vs P2W and you can grind to get it with in-game currency. Meanwhile, the P2W loot box heavy PvP Apex Legends doesn't get a blip from the same haters despite being everything they hate, less original, and in a more crowded game genre.

If Anthem fails... what the holy eff kinds of games do you think they're going to make?!?

 

[Zardnaar]

The OP's attitude is a bit of a trigger for me...
In part because it's so spectacularly unoriginal.

The hate for Anthem is an amazing example of the Internet Hivemind. Groupthink intersecting with a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Everyone was hating on Anthem from the announcement trailer. And in the weeks before the open demo/ public beta stress test. And, unsurprisingly, during the stress test. And now, shocker of shockers, at release. It was "cool" to hate Anthem because it was "cool" to hate EA and to want to see BioWare fail.

Why?
Several reasons.

First is the elephant in the room. The small overly vocal minority that didn't like the ending of Mass Effect 3. Despite only 42% of players actually having finished the game. 58% of gamers never saw that ending except in YouTube videos. Even if three-quarters of the people who beat the game hated the ending (and it was probably less than that), that's still only 30% of the people who bought the game. But it was probably far less.
Vocal minority.

Then there's Andromeda. Despite being BioWare in name only. It wasn't good, so people came down hard on the studio.

There's also the GamerGate factor BioWare has strong female characters and a high percentage of queer characters. And rejects the idea that all female characters in the game need to be there as sexual objects of affection for male players. There's a lot of hate aimed at BioWare for that. Because hating that's what incels do.

It suddenly because cool to hate BioWare and want to see it fall. Because people like that. They like to watch things crumble. People fail. As someone once said:

Because BioWare was so popular, so beloved, people want to see it fall now.


The response to Anthem is just a whole bunch of unoriginal followers tripping over themselves to repeat what they heard online and echo someone else's opinion.

I bought the game mostly as a reaction to the sheep-like response to the game. To make-up my own mind.
I'm only a couple hours into Anthem and so far it's okay. Not a masterpiece, but it's fun. I'm enjoying it. It's a solid B-. A 65% at worst. It's enough fun that I want to keep playing.

But the worst part is that it's so self defeating. Stupidly self defeating.
So much hate is aimed at EA and the big AAA studios for only doing sequels, forced multiplayer, PvP and no story, and loot boxes. But Anthem is new IP, has largely optional multiplayer, is PvE only with a decent story, and there's no loot boxes. Heck, there's barely any microtransactions, and you it's cosmetic vs P2W and you can grind to get it with in-game currency. Meanwhile, the P2W loot box heavy PvP Apex Legends doesn't get a blip from the same haters despite being everything they hate, less original, and in a more crowded game genre.

If Anthem fails... what the holy eff kinds of games do you think they're going to make?!?

It's kewl to hate on EA because they are cancer and bad for the gaming business. They tend to buy smaller developers and kill them and their franchises.

Note EA used to be my favorite developer/publisher. This is back in the 16 bit days with Centurion, General Chaos, Desert and Jungle Strike, Fifa (the first one).

Same thing with Bioware before the EA buyout. ME4 or even C&C4 are prime examples of them butchering franchises. Didn't care what content they but in their games as long as the game was good. EA share price is down AAA title really needs to crack top 5 or top 10 for a bit.


Might be kewl to hate EA chuck in Activision as well. Even Bethesda has crapped the bed with Fallout 76.

 

[ccs]

Well Gladius, this is your last chance to pay me not to buy this game...

 

[Mookus]

So, yes, necroed this thread to gloat over the fact that Anthem is indeed confirmed to be mediocre or worse.

You're welcome, all.

I admittedly only skimmed a chunk of the middle of this conversation, but where between here and the OP did the goalposts change from "Anthem should fail because it is a tool of the devil" to "Anthem should fail because it's a mediocre game"?

Speaking only for myself, it's a bit buggy (shocker, a new release with obvious bugs?! But that's another discussion entirely) but quite a bit of fun (though I did just finish re-reading "Starship Troopers," so it's possible I'm just digging power armor these days). It's a nice change of pace from traditional multiplayer TDM/DM (still using CoD:BO for this) and battle royale (yep, Apex Legends). I was using the "Zombies" mode of CoD to scratch that cooperative PvE itch, but there's a lot to be said for giant robots fighting monsters.

Non-cosmetic paid-for loot is, indeed, an awful thing in my view... so I don't pay for loot. If that puts me at too much of a disadvantage while playing a game (subjective of course), then I move on to a different one.

Atm, my only Anthem gripe is that I haven't really put all that many hours in, but I've already hit two quests that were borked to the point of being undoable.

 

[Jester David]

It's kewl to hate on EA because they are cancer and bad for the gaming business. They tend to buy smaller developers and kill them and their franchises.

Yeah. They're bad. I don't think anyone likes EA. Liking EA isn't on the table.

But if someone hates EA shouldn't the hope be "man, I hope BioWare manages to strike a deal to buy itself out" or "I hope some key management changes and they go more hands-off on studios" rather than "I hope Anthem does poorly so EA can close that studio as well"?

And, again, if someone was saying "I'm not buying Anthem because I refuse to support EA or any of its games" then that's a stand I can respect. But that's not the stance being presented.

Same thing with Bioware before the EA buyout. ME4 or even C&C4 are prime examples of them butchering franchises. Didn't care what content they but in their games as long as the game was good.

ME:A was an entirely different studio, bought and then renamed "BioWare East" because it was going to work on a BW related IP. It wasn't *really* BioWare.

Command & Conquer is in a sad little place. There isn't really a studio that makes those games anymore, so EA is foisting it on untested small studios they're setting up or buying. Having them start with a small mobile game makes sense: quickly money while cutting the development team's teeth and getting everyone settled in. And you end up with a bunch of art assets and a base game to start building upon.

EA share price is down AAA title really needs to crack top 5 or top 10 for a bit.

Kinda. Their stock has dropped pretty hard in the last eight or nine months (since late July 2018), but just started creeping back up (turning around in February). But even at its lowest, stock was still higher than it was in pretty much all of 2015 and 2016 (pretty much any time before August 2016 really).
But they still have a looooong way to go before the company starts going into freefall mode.

As far as "cracking the top 10" goes, Apex Legends is still doing amazing on Twitch. And as a Free 2 Play but Pay 2 Win game driven by loot boxes, it's probably making money hand over fist. They also have FIFA 19 going strong. Because having a rookie studio jump right into a AAA game doesn't end well. (Look at Mass Effect: Andromeda.)

Speaking of ME:A, that was released March 21st, 2017. And the company's stocks jumped pretty high following that. They had some big growth in April and May despite Andromeda becoming a punchline. And Anthem is nowhere near as bad as that: it should have very little impact on EA's stock.

Might be kewl to hate EA chuck in Activision as well.

Sure. Not a fan of Actavision either. Happy Bungie got out.
But, again, this thread isn't really about hoping EA fails (or changes its ways). It's about salivating at the thought of Anthem failing so the OP can spring out and cry "I told you so!" with a herd of other sheep who are masturbating furiously over the thought of watching BioWare close.

Even Bethesda has crapped the bed with Fallout 76.

Eh... Every studio does a so-so game eventually. Especially large that tend to split into two or three teams so they can work on multiple different games. Fallout 76 was likely foisted onto a newer project team to give them some practice before they moved onto Fallout 5 or the next Elder Scrolls team, or a brand new project altogether.

 

[Imaculata]

I want all games to be good, and I hope games that are good (-or that I consider to be good) are rewarded with good sales.

Bioware has a history of amazing games, so I have no bias against them. I really enjoyed many of their products. Baldursgate 1 and 2, Dragon Age 1 and 3, Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3 were all great games (except for Mass Effect 3's ending, and I didn't play Mass Effect Andromeda, because it got terrible reviews).

Bioware seems to excel especially in regards to story-driven singleplayer games. But Anthem does not resemble any of those games in any way, shape or form. What I saw of Anthem did not excite me. Plus I feel the dark shadow of 'live-services', 'cosmetics', 'lootboxes', 'grind' and 'EA' hanging all over this. Plus the artstyle seems very generic, and resembles Destiny 1, which also looked generic.

Then after watching some reviews, I became even less interested. I heard criticism that seemed all too familiar: 'grind', 'no endgame', 'poor reward system', 'long loading times', 'repetitive and boring quest design', 'recycled enemies'... These are exactly the things that make me not want to play anything labeled a 'live service'.

I want Anthem to be good, as I wish all games are. But I don't want to wait several years of patches for it. It is either a good game right out of the box, or I don't buy it (I'm looking at you Fall Out 76). And any game that locks most of their interesting content behind a paywall with the excuse that 'it's just cosmetic' can sod right off.

 

[trappedslider]

I want Anthem to be good, as I wish all games are. But I don't want to wait several years of patches for it. It is either a good game right out of the box, or I don't buy it (I'm looking at you Fall Out 76).

What was the last game you bought that didn't require polishing? I picked up FO76 pre ordered and despite it's starting issues, it's gotten loads better and the road map for the year ahead looks awesome https://fallout.bethesda.net/en/article/7Lw6jVvhjzSNzuUMmKZgwn/fallout-76-100-days-roadmap-for-2019

EDIT: Hell, FO4 still HAS problems that haven't and more than likely won't be fixed

EDIT II:

Command & Conquer is in a sad little place. There isn't really a studio that makes those games anymore, so EA is foisting it on untested small studios they're setting up or buying. Having them start with a small mobile game makes sense: quickly money while cutting the development team's teeth and getting everyone settled in. And you end up with a bunch of art assets and a base game to start building upon.
.

C&C is coming back https://www.polygon.com/2018/11/14/18095301/command-conquer-remastered-red-alert-ea-petroglyph

 

[Deset Gled]

If anyone wants to actually track how Anthem is doing, I think the best tool to use is this page: https://www.ea.com/games/anthem/acts

If it gets expanded, in means Anthem is doing well. If it shrinks, it means Anthem is failing. If it stays roughly the same, it means two more years of arguing about whether Anthem is succeeding or failing.

 

[Mallus]

Is anyone here playing Anthem now? Of course since I posted on Saturday that I'd hold off, I'm tempted to download it tonight after work. Bioware apparently still has a hold over me, despite their making a Destiny clone with Anthem and trying to graft open-world onto their time-tested formula with DA:I and ME:A.

 

[Imaculata]

What was the last game you bought that didn't require polishing? I picked up FO76 pre ordered and despite it's starting issues, it's gotten loads better and the road map for the year ahead looks awesome https://fallout.bethesda.net/en/article/7Lw6jVvhjzSNzuUMmKZgwn/fallout-76-100-days-roadmap-for-2019

The last two games I bought were the Resident Evil 2 remake and Spyro the Dragon Reignited, both which were great games right out of the box. Before that, I bought Dead Cells, Bloodstained Curse of the Moon, Mother Russia Bleeds and Axiom Verge. A bunch of Indy games which were all great, and content complete. Fall Out 4 also was a great game upon release. Buggy perhaps, as all Bethesda products are, but fun.

There wasn't any content missing in any of these games. When a publisher releases a game that is supposed to be a live service, it should have all the content in it upon launch, just like any game. There should be enough missions, quests and variety to keep me playing for at least 8 hours. It shouldn't be released as an incomplete product, where the main gameplay is broken, ai is non-existent, and most of the content that they advertised with has mysteriously vanished... only to probably reappear behind a paywall in a month or so.

When I started playing the original Guild Wars, it was a fantastic game right from the start. There were plenty of missions, quests, items and even endgame content, though sparse. They then added more and more to it over time, but it didn't need those additions to be a fun game. No game releases entirely without bugs, but that is not what I'm talking about here. We need to stop accepting incomplete products, and we need to stop accepting games that are taken apart, only to resell the missing pieces to us at a later date. It is pure consumer exploitation.

When game publishers first started throwing the term "live service" around, it had a positive meaning. It meant that they would keep updating the game with new content, and thus prolong its lifespan. But the meaning has changed, and it should now serve as a warning for an incomplete game, full of grind, daily/weekly/monthly challenges (I seriously hate those), missing rewards and paywall-locked content. Because that's what it means now.

If anyone wants to actually track how Anthem is doing, I think the best tool to use is this page: https://www.ea.com/games/anthem/acts

If it gets expanded, in means Anthem is doing well. If it shrinks, it means Anthem is failing. If it stays roughly the same, it means two more years of arguing about whether Anthem is succeeding or failing.

No, here is your accurate tracker for how Anthem is doing: Anthem is selling worse than Mass Effect Andromeda, which was a commercial success. But despite Mass Effect Andromeda being a commercial success, it didn't make enough money (or not as much as EA wanted) and EA still killed off the studio that made it: Bioware Montreal. They closed a studio down for it. So what do you think they are going to do to a studio that made a game that sells even worse? I'm calling it now, EA will shut down Bioware completely over this. It is done. EA doesn't have any sentimental attachment to Bioware like we gamers seem to have. They are a Tarrasque; devouring and destroying everything in its path in a desire for more dollars. They don't care how good the artists and writers are at Bioware, or how good Dragon Age and Mass Effect were. They will close them down if Anthem isn't the critical success that they want it to be during its first month.