For the gun people, a crazy player question ...

[Kaleon Moonshae]

Well, so far, the only times they've tried to attack anybody/anything has been in the middle of the night in relatively unpopulated areas, so nobody sees the shotgun.

And he "wears a duster". But that doesn't really matter. When/if it comes up he wants to attack somebody during the day, he's going to find he's left the toys in the van.

Definately mildly-stealthy. It's a Dark*Matter game, so their REAL job is to investigate strange things, gather information, and report home. Everybody else has gotten that to a T, and they love it. Then there's the guy that wants to carry around a 10-gauge shotgun and wear a Light-Duty vest all day, blow things up, shoot things with shotguns, and when somebody says: "Don't screw with them, they're heavy hitters.", tries to build a 6d10 jump gun.

The bang stick isn't as horrible an idea as all that ... If it were called for. If they had, like, some pipe and a workshop and some nails and a handful of shotgun shells and no shotgun. But the whole purpose behind it is to deal massive amounts of damage in one blow, force a MDT save, and 'win' instantly.

Bleeeeehhhhhgh.

--fje

I am really confused here, is all he is trying to do is make a gun like in Phantasm? A shotgun with three barrels side by side? I am not understanding this whole rake refernce, maybe I missed something early on. If all he is wanting is a three barrel shotgun then that is easily done with the craft skill although it isn't very practicle and will have some interesting affects. The one being that if you try to do it with anything bigger than 16g it will end up knocking him prone whenever he shoots it. It will then take an action to get up. Also, it will take a full round action (not longer I wouldn't think, 6 seconds is pretty long if you know what you are doing) to reload. This means he's only going to be firing it every third round or so. Now for damage I would say add a die to the base. If he's wanting to use slugs, give him a 20% miss chance on top of everything else as well as have it deal normal shotgun damage (it is really hard to aim three barrels at a single target and hope to hit with all three of them unless the critter is huge or larger).

Just my two cents

 

[Kaleon Moonshae]

Okay, somebody invoked my name. A bang stick, huh?

This guy is why I've been working on turning the design of new firearms into a combination of a new skill and feats. making a new gun requires more than knowing how to create the various parts. Some of the techniques require special tools and training a machinist will not have (creating a rifled barrel, for instance, or chroming said barrel), and the ability to simply design the weapon to begin with should fall outside the Craft (mechanical) skill as well. That damned skill is just way too broad. The way it is written, a PC could make a brand new gun, then turn right around build a F1 racer with the ease of blowing his nose, then turn around and design a brand new jumbo jet airliner for Boeing....

You've gone down the right route by declaring it an improvised weapon. have him write a description for you, and apply danger in accordance to that.

First off, as with any improvised weapon, there's a chance it will explode when used. He's going to be making it from pipe stock, not milling it for solid stock. And any sheet metal parts will end up made from folded sheet metal, rather then being stamped from a block. Given that, I'd suggest he has a 1 in 6 to 1 in 10 chance it just blows up in his face whenever he uses it, destroying the weapon and doing all that damage to him as well. Only way around this is if he's taking his character out of the game for a few weeks game time and uses the proper facilities. Hell, even then, it might not turn out being any more safe and reliable than a "saturday night special" (dirt cheap mass produced firearms that are of such poor quality that they frequently went to pieces before 100 rounds were fired through them).

Second, again, being an impromptu weapon, if he doesn't describe a safety in the written description, there is none. That means rough handling can result in it going off at inopportune times.

Third, he's loading three barrels. it will take twice as long to load as a double barrelled shotgun.

Fourth, no 6d10. Even though a bang stick uses ammunition, it really shouldn't be treated like a gun. 2d10 for the first shell, +1d10 for each additional round fired off at the same moment. The shells = 4d10 damage, only a little more than the heaviest AMR rifles in WL.

Fifth, it's heavy and awkward; three shotgun shells on the end of a pole. there will be penalties to hit from that, too. Waving such an unbalanced item around will tire the PC out quickly, too.

Is this any help?

BTW, if you want to have fun and you have a copy of one of my Big Bang books, drop the book in front of him and tell him the author has personally advised you on how to proceed with the implementation of his bang stick idea.

I agree with almost all of this, but I am not sure why he would need to use pipe stock. If that is what he decides to do let him and apply all of this. If he really is a gun nut then also be prepared for a very workable and affective alternative. Taking a double barrel shotgun, a single barrel shotgun, welding them together however he sees fit and installing a simple lever mechanism to pull all three trigger when used. I would say it would effectively make it permanently a three trigger weapon and the wear and tear for dry firing if he doesn't use all three barrels would take its toll. I would still prolly limit him to a -4 mod but I wouldn't give it a chance to blow up, he's still using real guns which were made well, he's just figured a way to fire two at once, basically. There is precedent for this in some movies, and since d20 modern is cinematic then I guess that is enough.

 

[tenkar]

Could a nailgun penetrate body armor ? I mean I have put nails into concrete? at least then he could walk around with a tool belt (with tools) and say he is a carpenter on his way home ?

A nailgun would probably ignore most body armor. Standard law enforcement issued vests are little protection against thrusting / piercing weapons. Kevlar works by spreading out the energy of the bullet impact. It will still hurt like hell but as long as your body armor is rated for the threat it SHOULD stop the the round from penetrating. A nail fired from a nail gun will punch thru the kevlar, which is basically layers of fabric.

While we are at it, most body armor used in law enforcement is not rated for rifle and military weapons like M-16s and related weapons. It might slow the slug down, but it probably won't stop it.

 

[Danos402]

I think he described it something like a claw/rake, perpendicular to the bar, swung like a club I guess. --fje

if he wants to swing it what's the point he does need room to swing.. this is where I get the idea it's like a rake/pick axe as opposed to a spear. and by him wanting it to be a "bang stick" then it's point blank weapon... but I still don't quite see the point of it .. I mean getting hit with a double barrel at point blank range doesnt make much difference if it's 2 barrels or 3 at that range does it ?

Oh and thanks for the info on the nail gun.. I wasnt sure if it would work well or not... I never have worn kevlar but i know arrows penetrate it . and a 12 gauge slug if it didnt penetrate it would still cause some knockdown/knock back ..

 

[Psimancer]

Wow, that is some player you have there!

I’m surprise the Institute hasn’t brought the character is for a ‘psychological evaluation’ yet!

* * *

“…Lets see… You have requested a Barret 50, carry a Shotgun around all the time and you attack anything with a ‘bang stick’… tell me about your relationship with your mother…”

* * *

 

[heapswife]

(This is Heap, on the wife's account. Don't want to mess with her login settings.)

Anyway, for Kaleon ... I think you're missing the train of thought, here. It isn't a shotgun with three barrels. While I'd think that slightly odd (and uncalled for in the game we're running), that's not what's being discussed. It isn't a "gun" at all. It's a stick. Like a broom handle or a length of rebar or pipe. With shotgun shells at one end. And you swing it, like a baseball bat. Or you jab it, like a spear. I'm not sure, I never quite got that part of it.

At any rate, it isn't a firearm at all. It's a melee weapon. You swing the stick, hit the guy with the business end of the shotgun shells, they go 'boom'.

All in all, you're right. WHATEVER it is, it is very cinematic. Unfortunately, this isn't "MacGuyver Swarzenegger, First Blood Part III" or any actiony-movie like that. If you were watching this game on TV it would be X-Files.

When's the last time Mulder hit The Smoking Man in the face with a bunch of shotgun shells on a stick?

The bigger issue is the disconnect between the style of the game being RUN and the style of the game being PLAYED (at least on his end). If we were RUNNING a high-octane muscle-thriller action game, then SURE ... grab some Craft (Mechanical) and Demolitions and let's build us a thermonuclear device that looks and acts like a 1974 El Camino and drive it into the penthouse parking unit of The Evil Doctor Burnswhenipee.

As for psych evals. *shrug* At this point it's wait and see. We're starting a new semester soon. We're going to have multiple games to choose from. I think this guy was a little burnt out on the Skills 'n Research style games as the OTHER DM was running a Forgotten Realms game that was about 80% hanging out in dusty libraries researching ancient magical superweapons we found, trying desperately to find the ON button.

Hopefully SOMEBODY will be running a Hack'n'Slash game for him to get his aggression out on. I very well may be running a d20 Future/Star*Drive military game ... against the Externals.

Should be enough death and destruction in that for anybody. Thinking "Space: Above and Beyond", here.

--fje

 

[heapswife]

I feel a bit sorry for the guy, as he's clearly stuck with a group that's just not for him (I'm turning that around a bit, since I'm fairly sure the guy isn't malicious).

That being said, you *can* play the Combat Guy in an investigative campaign, just not by charging people with SMGs. I'd go heavy on the martial arts, stealth and pistols with silencers, myself, and then do my darnedest to own the combat scenes.

Brad

See above.

I don't dislike the guy on a personal level or anything. It's just ... disruptive. I now have to plan every adventure from here on out with: "Okay, I COULD have that secret government agency show up, but then he'd try to stick a C-4 bannana in their tailpipe and steal the black helicopter. So I'll just leave a 'forgotten file' laying around to suggest their involvement." If there's another guy with a gun, I realize he's now going to charge that guy with the gun and try to "win". So if I have a guy with a gun show up, it'd probably best be a cultist of some sort. Then he can have fun killing the cultist.

I hadn't planned much "combat" into this adventure. It was purely a mystery to be examined and solved. The one combat I did write in was purely optional. He took the option. Everybody else jumped out the window. It's more a matter of adventure design, I guess.

--fje

 

[Danos402]

big gauge guns

well just be glad he never asked or heard of a "Punt Gun"
those were custome made shotguns which weighed in at around 100lbs and were nothing more than a large Shotgun cannon..

when he asks for one of those you gotta draw the line..


you could also limit the ammo he has available which means he couldnt easily keep reloading over and over again and say fire 20 shells from it in one session... ammo gets wet , old rounds, bad powder .. all could be good excuses for ammo simply not firing..

 

[Storyteller01]

I've used this method a few times, but be careful.

It can backfire just as often as it will work...

That being said, characters who have...umm... a 'violent' nature are generally less than subtle. They leave behind clues, calling cards, etc, usually by accident. So make it that your Antagonist knows of your bad boy, and takes precautions (snipers aiming at the most likely entrances, bombs attached to the tape, etc). Unless your friend cleans up the bodies, your bad guys will know is out there, and that someone is willing to go to extremes. There are plenty of evil minds on this site to give you a hand. No one says he has to see his enemy either. Military thinking is always a plus.


Unfortunately, he might think your picking on him. I don't know what his reaction would be.

 

[Storyteller01]

OUCH!!!!! Warlord, nice touch!!!


For the bang stick, I've read(in fiction, mind you) about a length of pipe being used with a screwdrive or metal spike fitted in place on one end (so it can hit the primer on the shotgun shell). The shotgun shell would be inserted in the other. Hide it in your jacket, and give a good thrust for a big suprise. It would be held with two hands and braced near the hip to absorb the recoil. Probably need some gloves though. Maybe the gun guy will accept a loss in damage if he can get a good one-shot suprise hit in.