Forgotten Realms "Canon Lawyers"

[Charger28Alpha]

I think what needed to happen was a great encyclopedia of the Realms, released in both hardbound and electronic editions. Unifying much of the lore would be a great help to GMs and having a single source would be amazing. As it is, if one wants to run a cannon-heavy game, one has to use the Forgotten Realms Candlekeep Index quite a bit to find all the references to a particular person or place. There are a great many details that reside within 1st and 2nd edition FR books. Prior to WotC removing their old PDFs, it was a lot easier to suggest purchasing these books for cheap and checking them when need be.

Does this fit the bill?

The Forgotten Realms Wiki - Books, races, classes, and more

I am surprised no one has mentioned the above linked Wiki, it is an invaluable resource, if like GMforPowergamers you only have the Campaign Setting book. It is the only reason I even thought about putting together a campaign in Faerûn. Which I have done, it is sitting in files on my PC to take to Kuwait this winter.

I find that for fluff it is much better and easier then wading through dozens of books.

As to "canon lawyers", not much can be done if you have one, that hinders rather than helps the plot, at your table.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

How do you know what most people don't run into?

Because we read. You read everywhere about FR's baggage. I've had my issues with FR, and I've read my issues echoed dozens or even hundreds of times. You almost never read this sort of thing about Eberron or any other setting. Other settings don't have this level of canon expectations combined with a SW/Trekkie level of fanism.

FR has no baggage to a hardcore fan. The setting for over a decade catered to hardcore fans. It got to the point where the canon became and end in itself and reading FR campaign books for canon started overshadowing actually playing games there. The same things that catered to the hardcore fan are the same things bystanders call "baggage" and "more hassle than the setting is worth".

The issue comes when you ask the question of whether Forgotten Realms is the flagship setting of D&D. Historically speaking, this is what Forgotten Realms is. Thanks to how the setting has been handled(FR for the FR fans), it hasn't served mainstream D&D well in this regard.

 

[Bumbles]

Because we read. You read everywhere about FR's baggage. I've had my issues with FR, and I've read my issues echoed dozens or even hundreds of times. You almost never read this sort of thing about Eberron or any other setting.

Well, you're saying exactly what I thought you might say, which is that you're relying on assuming a meaning to what people don't say, which I've found to often be quite misleading, especially when you've got something as popular as the Forgotten Realms. It actually tends to be quite deceptive, and may be giving you the illusion that others don't have these problems.

I suggest conducting more thorough research.

 

[DaveMage]

Does this fit the bill?

The Forgotten Realms Wiki - Books, races, classes, and more

I am surprised no one has mentioned the above linked Wiki, it is an invaluable resource, if like GMforPowergamers you only have the Campaign Setting book.

Thanks for that link!

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Well, you're saying exactly what I thought you might say, which is that you're relying on assuming a meaning to what people don't say, which I've found to often be quite misleading, especially when you've got something as popular as the Forgotten Realms. It actually tends to be quite deceptive, and may be giving you the illusion that others don't have these problems.

I suggest conducting more thorough research.

This sort of elitist attitude doesn't really help. Say that you have a problem or that there is a problem with Forgotten Realms and people tend to insinuate that the problem is with you, not the Realms. This is the sort of fan attitude that builds a wall keeping out new players.

People gripe about Eberron all the time. They gripe about not liking the flavor for the most part. Maybe I should have been specific in that the criticisms leveled against FR seem fairly unique to FR.

 

[Bumbles]

People gripe about Eberron all the time. They gripe about not liking the flavor for the most part. Maybe I should have been specific in that the criticisms leveled against FR seem fairly unique to FR.

It may to you, but, my experience is that there is nothing unique about this particular criticism.

And as for attitudes go, well, I find it offensive whenever I see people making an assumption based on the terms you have, whether it be a RPG subject, a computer one, or almost anything else you might name. So it's not a Realms thing for me, I apply it to a wide variety.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Ok, lets put it this way:

FR's biggest issue is that it has an image problem. FR fans tend to be the trekkies of the D&D world, with all that entails. Its an exclusive club that tends to be off-putting to those not already inside. In addition, this image problem doesn't exist to FR fans themselves for the most part, and they don't really see or understand it. There are also entire libraries of canon which in popular perception the game "must" be true to, which can be daunting to the outsider. Unlike Star Trek where you can watch shows/movies and not have to deal with Trekkies, playing D&D is a group activity where playing in FR makes it more difficult to avoid FR fanism.

This level of canon expectations and fan furor doesn't really exist for other settings, other than possibly Vampire: the Masquerade during its heyday.

 

[Primal]

A setting should not have expectations so strong that a DM could end up ridiculed or harrassed by his players for getting the setting "wrong".

Well, some players are rules-lawyers and some players are setting-lawyers... that's the way it has been, and such behaviour is not restricted to RPGs only. I don't think Eberron hardcore fans are any different from FR "canon lawyers", and although there's a difference in amount of published material, Eberron isn't exactly "lore light" setting either... especially for a new DM.

 

[Bumbles]

FR's biggest issue is that it has an image problem.

I don't think this image problem is a real issue. It may be the biggest issue for you, but for me? It doesn't even track. Not even with the image you have of it.

If anything, the real issue I see is a conflict between people's expectations which is so widespread that I would suggest learning to deal with that conflict on its own. You can run into it without expecting it, including with as I mentioned before, carrots.

This level of canon expectations and fan furor doesn't really exist for other settings, other than possibly Vampire: the Masquerade during its heyday.

Again, me, I've run into people of all stripes with those kinds of expectations without anything to do with the Realms. Maybe it's the experiences we've had which is coloring our different perceptions.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

I don't think this image problem is a real issue. It may be the biggest issue for you, but for me? It doesn't even track. Not even with the image you have of it.

Are you an existing Forgotten Realms fan? Why would you have this issue if you are an existing fan? I could imagine this problem being difficult to see in others.

If anything, the real issue I see is a conflict between people's expectations which is so widespread that I would suggest learning to deal with that conflict on its own. You can run into it without expecting it, including with as I mentioned before, carrots.

So, you're saying that if people have an issue with FR, it is an issue with them and not with FR. I hear FR fans say this a lot. Its not really a welcoming attitude.