D&D General Forgotten Realms geographic changes.

[Voadam]

The first edition box set explicitly states the large-scale 1e/2e maps of Faerun are in-universe maps which might contain errors. I don't see any reason to assume later maps are any different. As far as I can tell, the only maps that are guaranteed to be accurate are the ones the DM has decided to use during an adventure you're playing.

From the 1e Forgotten Realms Boxed Set page 5:

Two of the maps are drawn to provide a general overview of the Realms, running from the Moonshae Isles in the west to the land of Thay in the east, and from the Spine of The World Mountains in the North to the Jungles of Chult in the south. These maps have been drawn with that information available to our representative in the Realms, Elminster the Sage, and represents what is known of those lands from the mindset of the Dalelands and Cormyr.

The other two maps are detailed blow-ups of sections of the former maps, covering that region from the Sword Coast to The Dragon Reach in great detail, for use in adventuring through the Realms. As more of the world is fully explored, more maps of this and scale will be made available for use in Realms-related products.

So it sounds like the Sword coast maps are supposed to be game accurate down to the hex level for exploring and traveling, while the bigger map is a general overview that is specifically based on in world knowledge from a certain perspective.

 

[Parmandur]

From the 1e Forgotten Realms Boxed Set page 5:

Two of the maps are drawn to provide a general overview of the Realms, running from the Moonshae Isles in the west to the land of Thay in the east, and from the Spine of The World Mountains in the North to the Jungles of Chult in the south. These maps have been drawn with that information available to our representative in the Realms, Elminster the Sage, and represents what is known of those lands from the mindset of the Dalelands and Cormyr.

The other two maps are detailed blow-ups of sections of the former maps, covering that region from the Sword Coast to The Dragon Reach in great detail, for use in adventuring through the Realms. As more of the world is fully explored, more maps of this and scale will be made available for use in Realms-related products.

So it sounds like the Sword coast maps are supposed to be game accurate down to the hex level for exploring and traveling, while the bigger map is a general overview that is specifically based on in world knowledge from a certain perspective.

I mean, the 3E FRCS is even more explicit about this, thst all "facts" about the Forgotten Realms are fungible DM tools to use, not use, radically twist, etc. as needed by the game.

 

[Epic Meepo]

The other two maps are detailed blow-ups of sections of the former maps, covering that region from the Sword Coast to The Dragon Reach in great detail, for use in adventuring through the Realms. As more of the world is fully explored, more maps of this and scale will be made available for use in Realms-related products.

Now reverse the emphasis you added to the first sentence: The other two maps are detailed blow-ups of sections of the former maps, covering that region from the Sword Coast to The Dragon Reach in great detail, for use in adventuring through the Realms.

A detailed blow-up of an in-universe map is still an in-universe map. (Although any of the in-universe maps in the box set can be used to generate accurate in-universe travel times, since the box set has explicit rules for doing so.)

 

[Parmandur]

Now reverse the emphasis you added to the first sentence: The other two maps are detailed blow-ups of sections of the former maps, covering that region from the Sword Coast to The Dragon Reach in great detail, for use in adventuring through the Realms.

A detailed blow-up of an in-universe map is still an in-universe map. (Although any of the in-universe maps in the box set can be used to generate accurate in-universe travel times, since the box set has explicit rules for doing so.)

That is still rather beggared by the millions of square miles in difference. Ancient and Medieval cartographers simply didn't get things that wrong, particularly about the core lands they were from.

 

[Epic Meepo]

That is still rather beggared by the millions of square miles in difference. Ancient and Medieval cartographers simply didn't get things that wrong, particularly about the core lands they were from.

That could just be an in-universe cartographer accidentally assigning the wrong scale to an otherwise-accurate map. (Something similar happened in the real world when the maps in the Kara-Tur box set were commissioned. The cartographer drew proportionally-accurate maps but then assigned them an impossibly large scale. In future products, the scale was revised downwards. There was no in-universe event causing Kara-Tur to shrink. The authors just noted that the original scale on the Kara-Tur maps was wrong and should be adjusted accordingly. So putting the wrong scale on a map is absolutely a mistake cartographers can make, even in modern times.)

 

[Parmandur]

That could just be an in-universe cartographer accidentally assigning the wrong scale to an otherwise-accurate map. (Something similar happened in the real world when the maps in the Kara-Tur box set were commissioned. The cartographer drew proportionally-accurate maps but then assigned them an impossibly large scale. In future products, the scale was revised downwards. There was no in-universe event causing Kara-Tur to shrink. The authors just noted that the original scale on the Kara-Tur maps was wrong and should be adjusted accordingly. So putting the wrong scale on a map is absolutely a mistake cartographers can make, even in modern times.)

But that's what makes it hard for me: real world cartographers did not make mistakes of that scale, they knew better. No Medieval English cartographer would accidentally make Great Britain the size of Australia.

 

[Voadam]

But that's what makes it hard for me: real world cartographers did not make mistakes of that scale, they knew better. No Medieval English cartographer would accidentally make Great Britain the size of Australia.

Wasn't the 3e scale change though leaving the local Sword Coast area mostly the same and changing the east west scale of stuff way out there far from the dales by cutting out open empty sections from those far away places like the Shaar? So England would be the same but Russia would be off on the English map.

Or am I misreading the 3e changes?

 

[Parmandur]

Wasn't the 3e scale change though leaving the local Sword Coast area mostly the same and changing the east west scale of stuff way out there far from the dales by cutting out open empty sections from those far away places like the Shaar? So England would be the same but Russia would be off on the English map.

Or am I misreading the 3e changes?

Nope: the Sword Coast region is shrunk by 30% one dimension and 40% in the other. The 5E SCAG area is over 5 million square miles, while the 3E represents tstion of the same (Swoed Coast Noeth, Western Heartlands, various islands) is around 2.2 million square miles. 1E and 2E had a much larger Sword Coast area, matching up with the 5E map.

And for an in-universe map explanation, thst is the area that should be least warped.

 

[R_J_K75]

Wasn't the 3e scale change though leaving the local Sword Coast area mostly the same and changing the east west scale of stuff way out there far from the dales by cutting out open empty sections from those far away places like the Shaar? So England would be the same but Russia would be off on the English map.

Or am I misreading the 3e changes?

Pretty sure it shrank somewhat but IDR exactly how and where it changed. I remember it being a topic of discussion but don't remember where and how WotC addressed it or if they even officially did, did they?

 

[Demetrios1453]

Pretty sure it shrank somewhat but IDR exactly how and where it changed. I remember it being a topic of discussion but don't remember where and how WotC addressed it or if they even officially did, did they?

There's a Dragon Magazine article that's shown earlier in this very thread, where they show pictures of themselves taking scissors to the old 1e/2e maps to cut them down to the 3e size.

They didn't address it in-game though. Actually, the 2e - 3e transition has been the only one that didn't involve a massive world-wide upheaval in the setting, just a few minor changes that were basically just explanations for the new mechanics.