Forgotten Realms...

[Darkness]

I think another part of the "Realms being full of magic" comes from some of the places where they have magical plumbing and magical lights and common people make use of minor magical items for daily conveiniences. This is not the common way in the Realms, but there are a few places like that (Halruua for example).

That's a quite good point... In all my Realms games over the years, the PCs (and their players, too) were quited awed by such magical places as Halruua - or Thay, for that matter.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

It amuses me that you all keep saying that FR is high magic, when there is nothing in the 3E FR rulebooks that say you should give out any more magic, treasure, or spells than in a normal D&D game. In fact, the FR team was specifically told that FR characters could not be any more powerful than a similarly equipped core D&D character. Yes, regionally-appropriate characters start with about 300 gp of gear more than core characters, but after a level or two that difference is negligible and all the extra gear means is the character is more likely to survive in that critical 1st-2nd level range.

So according to the rules, FR is not high magic. The themes of the setting usually rely on magic, but there's nothing hard-coded into the system to make you play it that way. It uses the core rules.

Well, FR has had that reputation for years. It's the responsibility of the designers to dispel that image for the gaming public, not vice-versa. Apparently the new edition hasn't been able to rid FR of that stigma (if you want to call it that; it's not that big of a deal to me. I always disliked the Realms for other reasons).

The new book is great, though.

 

[MulhorandSage]

Well, FR has had that reputation for years. It's the responsibility of the designers to dispel that image for the gaming public, not vice-versa. Apparently the new edition hasn't been able to rid FR of that stigma (if you want to call it that; it's not that big of a deal to me. I always disliked the Realms for other reasons).

The new book is great, though.

Once something in this hobby acquires a stigma, the game's over. This is a hobby where many of its fans (or at least its most vocal proponents) seem to be incapable of acknowledging when their opinions are being serviced. I know people who hold grudges against Dragon for tnings that happened there in the '70s. I know people who think that drow are the only blacks in FR, that dragons in D&D are wimps... the list of undispelled preconceptions is pretty long.

Designers shouldn't try to dispel a system or a world's reputation; it's an exercise in futility. Rather, they should play to the world or the system's strengths. do their best work for the people who *do* like it, and use the people who complain as a barometer, but harbor no expectations about ever changing their minds.

Scott Bennie

 

[telepox]

It amuses me that you all keep saying that FR is high magic, when there is nothing in the 3E FR rulebooks that say you should give out any more magic, treasure, or spells than in a normal D&D game. In fact, the FR team was specifically told that FR characters could not be any more powerful than a similarly equipped core D&D character. Yes, regionally-appropriate characters start with about 300 gp of gear more than core characters, but after a level or two that difference is negligible and all the extra gear means is the character is more likely to survive in that critical 1st-2nd level range.

So according to the rules, FR is not high magic. The themes of the setting usually rely on magic, but there's nothing hard-coded into the system to make you play it that way. It uses the core rules.

I guess people here like the high fantasy of Tolkien rather than the Earth inspired FRCS. I do. Too much magic makes the game, well, rather muchkin-like and, well, less role play-like. I still use FRCS, as my players prefer this setting. Luckily I as DM give out the treasure and magic items and try to keep it low. Yes, they complain and mutter alot about it not being within the standards set in the core rules, but I've been trying to get them to role play more and roll play less.

 

[Darkness]

I guess people here like the high fantasy of Tolkien rather than the Earth inspired FRCS.

Compared to your average mid- to high-level D&D party, the Fellowship of the Ring is quite poor in regards to magic, LOL.

 

[rounser]

Once something in this hobby acquires a stigma, the game's over. This is a hobby where many of its fans (or at least its most vocal proponents) seem to be incapable of acknowledging when their opinions are being serviced. I know people who hold grudges against Dragon for tnings that happened there in the '70s. I know people who think that drow are the only blacks in FR, that dragons in D&D are wimps... the list of undispelled preconceptions is pretty long.

Sometimes people even have a vested interest in maintaining such stigmas, even when presented with reasonable arguments to the contrary. The thinking goes that "X represents competition to Y, therefore to prove how good Y is I must downplay X's worth by maintaining and reinforcing these stigmas against it." I'm not saying everyone on this thread is doing this, nor that they don't genuinely believe what they say, but it's common enough behaviour to detect as a pattern.

 

[rounser]

Too much magic makes the game, well, rather muchkin-like and, well, less role play-like.

This is the unstated assumption that your average roleplayer makes, that low magic gameplay is more sophisticated than high magic gameplay, and that high magic gameplay is "munchkin".

If you believe this, I suppose you'd better stick to low level, because high level gameplay is higher magic, and therefore obviously "munchkin" and low roleplay. If you believe this, I suggest you read some of the high level story hours on this board, and perhaps reconsider your assumptions.

You also make the classic (deliberate?) mistake of being unable to differentiate between the power level of NPCs and Faerun's focus on the magical wonders of the world itself, and the power level of the PCs. The latter is under your control - if you let them make off with Khelben's treasury that is not the fault of the setting.

No, as of 3E, FR's magic is more in the form of wonders such as the Grinding Gulf or otherworldly foes such as the Shades and their floating city than it is in powering up PCs and encouraging Monte Haul gameplay - that entails a DM's decision to break the recommended rules for handing out treasure. The only way it might encourage that is that there are some very cool spells and items to hand out if you have Magic of Faerun, which might tempt a DM to hand out too much treasure too soon. Again, this has little to do with the setting.

I still use FRCS, as my players prefer this setting. Luckily I as DM give out the treasure and magic items and try to keep it low.

As noted earlier on this thread, FR operates from the same gp-value-of-treasure-per-level guidelines as the core rules, and only expands the treasure tables to include new magic items. They still all have a gp value which is adhered to. Again, if you're having trouble keeping the amount of magic items down in FR, you probably would just using the core rules as well.

Yes, they complain and mutter alot about it not being within the standards set in the core rules, but I've been trying to get them to role play more and roll play less.

Let me get this straight - adding more spells and magic items to the array that can be used in the game is a bad thing? Or are you implying that the FR spells and magic items are unbalanced? I don't entertain that idea much. Avoiding balance problems would have been one of the foremost things in designer minds when designing for it in order to avoid the "overpowered" stigma that the setting had, and to me they pretty much succeeded in this respect whilst maintaining a Realmsian flavour.

 

[Drew_Bear]

Wow..........

I really don't want this post to turn into a flame-fest. I only wanted to get a feel for how others handled the Realms. I have the old grey boxed set, and a few other sourcebooks (I still have FR1 - Waterdeep, my favorite!!). Some of it seemed over the top, and I drifted away after a bit.

The new book is fantastic, and I really want to run my game there. And I like some of the ideas I've seen. So far, only one player has some reservations, but I think he's willing to give it a go (bad experience a few years back, I believe).

I also have the Kara-Tur boxed set, so I think a journey across the Endless Wastes are in order down the road. Then of course there's Maztica..........

 

[telepox]

Let me get this straight - adding more spells and magic items to the array that can be used in the game is a bad thing? Or are you implying that the FR spells and magic items are unbalanced? I don't entertain that idea much. Avoiding balance problems would have been one of the foremost things in designer minds when designing for it in order to avoid the "overpowered" stigma that the setting had, and to me they pretty much succeeded in this respect whilst maintaining a Realmsian flavour.

Possibly you have some personal problems that seeped out in this one? Anyway, what character knew what level he was? How does having a higher level of magic make things "more" role playing? Magical socks and underwear might make your role playing experience better, but not mine.

 

[Victim]

Possibly you have some personal problems that seeped out in this one? Anyway, what character knew what level he was? How does having a higher level of magic make things "more" role playing? Magical socks and underwear might make your role playing experience better, but not mine.

And how does having less magic add to roleplaying? It generally makes no difference except in terms of combat ability. Combat ability has little to do with roleplaying.