Forked Thread: Can defenders do too good of a job? ...from Healing Potions seem odd

[Pabloj]

So again - bug or feature?

Well, the party must stop SOMETIME to catch their breath. I would rather have it by being something like healing surges that relates to the damage they´ve endured that running out of all magic mojo.

In any case, there´s got to be a limit on how much combat and punishment can a party endure non-stop.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I think that was atypical, though.

Actually I think that rogues running out of surges is extremely common - of all the strikers, they're the one that needs to put themselves at the most risk in order to do damage. Other characters don't need combat advantage to get their damage off, it just helps. Rogues need it, and often a rogue will end up beyond the defensive line and deep in enemy territory to obtain his flank.

 

[Hedgemage]

We've had the same issue with our dwarven fighter running dry when other characters are barely touched. One of our problems is that our party build consists of an Archer Ranger, Laser Cleric, and Wizard who all stay well away from melee. This leaves the Warlord and Fighter to do all the herding.

To address this, I got together with the person who plays the fighter and we respec-ed her dwarf for maximum damage sponging, including the Toughness and Durable feats. The result in our party is that our Fighter does less damage than the Warlord, but isn't drained of surges after two encounters.

 

[Celtavian]

It's odd how experiences differ. We're having more trouble with the strikers and wizard running out of healing surges. The artillery and skirmisher monsters almost always go after the strikers and controllers as soon as they show their face. Although it doesn't help that the strikers and controller in our group almost always win initiative and attack first. They don't bother to wait for the defender to engage, so they end up being the first targets.

On top of that monsters are more intelligent and focused in their tactics. So if you have a group of hobgoblin archers, they are going to pick a target and kill it so that they are constantly giving the attack bonus to another goblin. If the archers know there are ranged attackers in the group, they focus on those ranged attackers. They do pretty good damage, so they motor through the ranged attackers hit points fairly quick.

I guess it just depends on how the party plays. If the strikers and controller would wait for the defender to engage, I'm sure they wouldn't have such a problem with healing surges. Then the defender might have more a problem. I don't know. But at the moment the defenders in our groups are not using their healing surges faster than the strikers and controllers.

As a DM I have artillery and skirmisher focus on attacking those two classes. It seems the cunning way to fight.

 

[Oompa]

Hey, this sounds familliar. Where have I heard this before...............

[2.Trade] [Deadfighter] Man those giants suck! I tried to keep 3 of them on me and they pounded the crap outta me.
[2Trade] [Randomfiller] WTB Ace of Portals pst
[2.Trade] [Roflnerd] Thats awesome, did your heals suck?
[2.Trade] [Deadfighter] Not really. They just ran out of mana bc it took so long.
[2.Trade] [Totalnoob] Craptastic Raiders is now recruiting!! We are looking for geared 70s doing T5- some T6 content. pst with spec and gear.
[2.Trade] [Randomfiller] WTB Ace of Portals pst
[2.Trade] [Oompa] LOL!! lrn2 DPS!!
[2.Trade] [Flubber] LOL!
[2.Trade] [Pwnermage] LOL!!

...oh yeah, thats where I heard it. I thought it sounded familliar.

You sir, You just made me laugh.. so familiar

 

[Shabe]

Lets see, the party i DM for is

Fighter / Multi Wizard
Paladin / Cha
Warlord / Multi Paladin
Cleric / Str
Warlock / Infernal
Wizard

When they start fights they tend to have the wall of steel at the front, Paladin and Fighter, when you have a ton of steel charging at you, you are generally preoccupied with them, as well as not wanting to take the Combat Challenge or Divine Challenge penalties. The defenders close the distance with the monsters quite quickly and once there its hard not to attack them because the monster is marked, thunderwave and dragon breath. With two leaders the healing is usually always available so the defenders just take it and down go their surges, especially the paladin with his lay on hands aswell. The cleric generally gets close to the action and uses a few surges but the wizard, warlock and warlord manage to attract very little attention, especially as the warlock uses hellish rebuke and the warlord positions himself next to a marked target and a defender.

Maybe things will change when the opportunity attacks and divine challenge damage aren't as much of a %age of the monsters hit points, or maybe after a couple of days of being limited by the defenders surges the other party members will get in there and mix it up.