Celatavian,
My basic feelings about 4e are the same as yours.
I've been a lurker on Enworld for years. This is actually my first post. I've been an avid DND player since 1981 a long marriage indeed. I must admit that although I have not actually played 4e, I understand where you are coming from. Reading the players handbook was enough for me. The 4e version of DND is fundamentally different from what I loved and enjoyed about the game.
In the beginning a new player would sit in on a game, and after watching and listening to the players and DM for a short time, would ask if they could join in. Knowledge of the rules was for the most part secondary to the playing of the character. Enough rules could be learned in the first 15 minutes to play the game. Rolling up a character was a simple as throwing a few dice and took 2 minutes. Learning the rules for a new player amounted to reading the Page or 2 in the players handbook about your class.
I always envied the new players, because (not knowing the rules) they would be willing to attempt anything no matter how fantastic, and often succeed. I was almost always the DM then.
I didn't like the 2nd edition of DND. (I only read the players handbook and only played it once.)
So I stuck with the first edition ADND.
Years later when the 3rd edition came out, I caved in to the demand of the players, and gave it a try.
I liked it for a time, more as a player than a DM, and upgraded to 3.5 when the time came.
I never did DM a 3.5 game, properly. The preparation time for a game had become tedious for me, and I had become obsessed with trying to learn all the rules. When I heard that a 4e was coming out, that was the last straw. I didn't even want to play anymore. I haven't played in almost a year.
With 4e it was over for me also. Alas, Farewell DND?
In direct response to your post, DND did not leave us. We left her a long time ago. When the new shiny books came out we bought them and “upgraded”. Shelving the less shiny books, and leaving the loving marriage behind us. We hoped for a new younger more attractive bride, and never looked back. We have in effect been sleeping around for a long long time. We tried all the newer and prettier versions, and finally we realize that its not the same.
She has never left. She still awaits. Unchanged. Wherever you left her.
I have no complaints about how 2e 3e or 4e works. Its not about that. I understand why the newer versions don't work for me. I understand what your saying and agree with you.
For me the solution is to try M20 and break away from the rules encyclopedia sets that cost so much, and do not fill the void I feel. I will be dusting off my ADND books next month. I think that it is an appropriatly named game. Advanced Dungeons and Dragons.
Sorry for the long post,
Tarvis31
My basic feelings about 4e are the same as yours.
I've been a lurker on Enworld for years. This is actually my first post. I've been an avid DND player since 1981 a long marriage indeed. I must admit that although I have not actually played 4e, I understand where you are coming from. Reading the players handbook was enough for me. The 4e version of DND is fundamentally different from what I loved and enjoyed about the game.
In the beginning a new player would sit in on a game, and after watching and listening to the players and DM for a short time, would ask if they could join in. Knowledge of the rules was for the most part secondary to the playing of the character. Enough rules could be learned in the first 15 minutes to play the game. Rolling up a character was a simple as throwing a few dice and took 2 minutes. Learning the rules for a new player amounted to reading the Page or 2 in the players handbook about your class.
I always envied the new players, because (not knowing the rules) they would be willing to attempt anything no matter how fantastic, and often succeed. I was almost always the DM then.
I didn't like the 2nd edition of DND. (I only read the players handbook and only played it once.)
So I stuck with the first edition ADND.
Years later when the 3rd edition came out, I caved in to the demand of the players, and gave it a try.
I liked it for a time, more as a player than a DM, and upgraded to 3.5 when the time came.
I never did DM a 3.5 game, properly. The preparation time for a game had become tedious for me, and I had become obsessed with trying to learn all the rules. When I heard that a 4e was coming out, that was the last straw. I didn't even want to play anymore. I haven't played in almost a year.
With 4e it was over for me also. Alas, Farewell DND?
In direct response to your post, DND did not leave us. We left her a long time ago. When the new shiny books came out we bought them and “upgraded”. Shelving the less shiny books, and leaving the loving marriage behind us. We hoped for a new younger more attractive bride, and never looked back. We have in effect been sleeping around for a long long time. We tried all the newer and prettier versions, and finally we realize that its not the same.
She has never left. She still awaits. Unchanged. Wherever you left her.
I have no complaints about how 2e 3e or 4e works. Its not about that. I understand why the newer versions don't work for me. I understand what your saying and agree with you.
For me the solution is to try M20 and break away from the rules encyclopedia sets that cost so much, and do not fill the void I feel. I will be dusting off my ADND books next month. I think that it is an appropriatly named game. Advanced Dungeons and Dragons.
Sorry for the long post,
Tarvis31
