Forked Thread: should wotc make a board/minis game to market in toy stores?

[jephlewis]

Forked from: Why the D&D Miniature Line Failed...

...Their next big try is probably not going to rely on the RPG alone, because that's an insufficiently large market. WotC knows it can't win in GW's niche because it tried that with Chainmail. It won't come back for CMGs until market conditions change.

What's next? Maybe expandable board games or wargames with board game features. I do know that every game designer around salivated at the introduction of BattleLore.

So, we were discussing why and whether or not the miniature line failed, and eyebeams and I seem to agree that wotc may benefit from expanding the brand of D&D into something with board and/or wargame elements.

My take is, i'd love it if they gave us something like descent, but 'official' D&D. Ideally for me, this game would consist of the following:

cards for treasure, monsters [with stats], powers, traps, and characters
A LOT of dungeon tiles [like ten sheets] instead of a board for customization of map/play area
cardboard furniture ['3d scenery'] consisting of chests, barrels, crates, bookcases, desks, tables, trees, pillars and doors
cardboard counters/tokens ['2d scenery'] for trap squares, small treasure piles, minions/mooks/summoned creatures, stairs, tracking hit points and other conditions, spell/area affect/range templates, and secret passages
A good, well rounded set of minis [between 20 and 50] such as orcs, goblins, lizard people, mercenaries/robbers, trolls, skeletons, zombies, and one of each chromatic dragon [the dragons don't have to be adult size scaled]

Expansion packs to the game would include new and/or additional dungeon tiles, cardboard furniture, counters and tokens, and minis; the expansion packs could be 'themed'. For example 'town square', which would include dungeon tiles for common parts of a city, some 'regular human' minis, new cards, and any 2d and 3d scenery appropriate for such an expansion.

The rules for the board game would be the same thing that's in the current starter set as well as the keep on the shadowfell quick start rules. Additional 'rules stuff' like feats and magic items would be included in the appropriately themed expansion pack. The main game itself as well as it's expansions would advertise that more options for playing the board game are available in the 3 core books, and various supplements fitting the theme of the expansion [as an example - "for more options running your players through this haunted house, check out Open Grave"]. Character creation rules would NOT be in the board game, nor any of it's expansions; players would be directed to the player's handbook to make a new character. Expansions WOULD include new pre-gens, though.

The current sets of dungeon tiles that wotc is making could be used with this game, as well as the power cards that are due out next year; pretty much any accessory that wotc would make for the pnp game would be 'drop in useable' with the board game as well, such as the current line of adventures.

Ideally, the goal would be to market D&D inside toy/department stores and appeal specifically to board game oriented families/friends/groups, thus expanding D&D's audience past 'book gamers'.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume a price point of sixty bucks; expansions are thirty.

Would you buy it to use as a board game?
Would you buy it to introduce others to D&D?
Would you buy it to use the accessories in your 'book game'?
Would you buy it for a combination of the above listed factors?
Would you buy it for some other reason?
Would you NOT buy it, and why not?

Inspiration:
EDIT: forgot heroscape!
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/11170
Dungeons & Dragons - Boardgame - Diablo II Edition | BoardGameGeek
Dungeons & Dragons Adventure Game | BoardGameGeek
Dungeons & Dragons Board Game | BoardGameGeek
Dungeons and Dragons Basic Game | BoardGameGeek
Introduction to Advanced Dungeons & Dragons | BoardGameGeek
New Easy to Master Dungeons & Dragons, The | BoardGameGeek
Dragon Strike | BoardGameGeek
HeroQuest | BoardGameGeek
Descent: Journeys in the Dark | BoardGameGeek

 

[Wombat]

Nope, no interest.

I don't play a lot of boardgames anymore, and the ones I have are fine by me. I certainly wouldn't pick it up just because it was D&D related -- nowadays that is not a selling point for me. And if I were to introduce people to rpgs, I would use other, simpler systems (Spirit of the Century, FUDGE, Over The Edge, NWoD) rather than a board game that does not directly relate to rpgs in general.

Nope, no need, no use, no desire.

 

[Aeolius]

If you want kids to try it, it has to have an Xbox, Wii, or PS3 logo on the box.

 

[Umbran]

I don't spend a whole lot of time playing board or wargames these days. I don't feel a need for another one. Maybe if it turns out to be a spectacular game, but I wouldn't be holding my breath.

 

[ferratus]

Didn't Wizards/Hasbro already do this with Heroscape?

I presume it wasn't sucessful because I bought a couple games for $10 a pop at the bargain bin to get some cheap terrain.

 

[Cadfael_Corwith]

Didn't Wizards/Hasbro already do this with Heroscape?

I presume it wasn't sucessful because I bought a couple games for $10 a pop at the bargain bin to get some cheap terrain.

Heroscape did try to bridge the gap, but failed in the big box retail arena for several reasons. One had to do with how they packaged unique & common figures (sent too many uniques out and too few commons). Big box retailers ended up with unmoveable stock and wouldn't restock new waves with that stuff sitting on the shelves.

Walmart is the only major retailer still selling Heroscape, and all I've seen there lately is booster packs, not master sets. That means that they're not generating new players. Since WotC took over, the distribution has shifted to FLGS, who from what I've heard seem happy with the sales. WotC did announce another wave for release in June/July, so it's not dead yet.

 

[eyebeams]

Heroscape is not really what I'm thinking of, because it's not D&D. What would make a D&D collectible board game neat?

1) Boards that double as RPG battlemats.

2) Constructable three dimensional elements.

3) Some "Euro" qualities, including a way to play with purer strategic focus (even if you blow dice rolls), and no player elimination.

4) Actions other than combat.

5) This is the big one -- intelligent use of the D&D brand. That's the tricky part. D&D has this odd combination of recognition and mass market disdain.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I've always wondered why they never redid Dungeon.

Great game.

 

[Imaro]

They already did this...

[ame=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hasbro-Dungeons-and-Dragons/dp/B00028X3HC]Dungeons and Dragons: Amazon.co.uk: Toys & Games[/ame]

Dungeons & Dragons Fantasy Adventure Boardgame - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dungeons and Dragons

Now the problem was that Hasbro/WotC decided not to release the game in the U.S.... Would I have bought numerous copies of this and the expansions for my son as well as my nephews...yep, but WotC made it too hard to find in the U.S. I felt they really dropped the ball on that one.

 

[eyebeams]

Not "Euro" enough -- you need to be able to win without the dice on your side. Really, the game needs to define itself as a thing worth playing on its own, not as an intro to D&D or a GW Heroquest clone. Plus, it needs to support a lot of different miniatures.