Formally Building a Raft now building a canoe

[Steverooo]

I agree with Steve, mostly.

Simply give them an engineering check to design the thing, and a craft wood working/carpentry/ship building check to actually make it. If they're lacking something like rope, either ask them how they plan on fixing that problem, and if they can't, then up the DC by 5 or so for insufficient materials.

Making rope out of fiber (weaving two ropes together) used to be part of Rope Use, DC:15, IIRC. Finding good natural fibers would be DC:15 Knowledge (Nature). Nettles work well, for this. Making the rope DC;10 Craft (Ropemaking) would also work. Maybe also DC:15 Survival.

Again, you can make this as easy, or as hard on the PCs as you want to... Just remember: Wilderness river-crossings are a pretty common occurrence! I wouldn't set the DCs too high!

Also, Craft DCs are based upon sales price... A simple raft wouldn't sell for much, so it shouldn't cost too much (or take too long to make), either!

 

[thompgc]

Rafts are mentioned briefly in stormwrack
I think they have a craft DC and build time
Don't have the book with me, so can't elaborate

 

[Steverooo]

Rafts are mentioned briefly in stormwrack
I think they have a craft DC and build time
Don't have the book with me, so can't elaborate

Does it use Craft (Shipbuilding), or something else?

 

[DonTadow]

First of all, HOW HARD DO YOU WANT IT TO BE?!? Do YOU WANT them to get to the city? (It appears not, or you would have given them Chocoboos, or something!) If that's the case, then just tell them that, without axes, it will be too hard to cut down the trees... best to start walking! (Then you can deal with some Dwarf with Stonecunning telling you that he crafts a stone axe!)

If you don't really care, I'd tell them that they can rig up a raft that should survive the trip (no whitewater) in about a day, if they plan it, select the wood, all work together to cut the logs and float them downstream to where the raft will be assembled, and then tie them together with some rope... Building a raft really isn't all that hard (and how many people carrying what makes them 2,500#?!?)

Now make some tasks. I'd say to design a simple raft is DC:10 Knowledge (Engineering), DC:15 if they want a tiller. A successful plan adds a +2 Sybergy Bonus to building the raft. Every person gets to make an unskilled DC:10 Craft (Shipbuilding) or DC:15 Survival task, with each success adding another +2. Once all of the logs are assembled, five are laid parallel over two or three at right angles, and then everything must be tied down with DC:15 rope use. This latter step can be redone, if failed. Just untie the rope, and start again. Since there's no danger of combat, a few ranks of skill and "Take 10" should suffice (+2 for silk rope). The whole thing should waste a day, or so, with tools (more without).

Once a raft is built, navigation is as easy as following the river. They pole along until they get to where they're going (unless the river forks). Getting lost is covered in the DMG, and is generally handled by the Survival skill.

How long it takes depends upon how far the town is, how hard they pole, and the speed of the current. In other words, it takes as long as you tell them that it does... Duh!

LOL, I want to make it challenging but let me explain the circumstances surrounding this.

Actually this was all there choice. They broke into the barony's estate and discovered plans that there would be attacks made by some unknown force on several cities. Now, one attack had already begun in Hyvenshire (children were going missing) , the city that hired them to go to the barony to make things better. They were traveling with a farmer from Hyvenshire whom had 3 chocoboos (one had died in a battle with bandits) and wagon of goods for the baron. The people in Hyvenshire assumed the attacks were coming from the Baron because of lack of taxes paid. and they wanted their children back so they sent the wagon to make peace. (one of the farmers children is one that is missing.)

The pcs discover a cleared out barony that had been attacked itself by mechanical beholders and blood golems. They also discovered the plans of the attackers. Several cities including the barony's estate were marked as attacked or to be attacked, one of them was one of the pcs hometowns. The farmer was going to go back to hyvenshire seeing as he had no leads now on whom has his child. The PCs could have taken the wagon and chocoboo as the farmer was meager and obviously couldn't fight 6 party members. And that nearly took place. But one of the pcs (closer to good alignment) realized that that would leave the farmer in the middle of a dangerous forest with no transportation. They alsocould have given him one chocoboo, however, the town's good were in the wagon and the pcs rationalized that if they took the wagon, they'd come off as thieves too. So they made a decision to walk to the village. After realizing how slow that would be they d ecided to foot it to the river and take build a raft.

I didn't know where they were going to go after the baronny. i figured they would go to either the hometown, back to hyvenshire to find teh children or go to one of the other places closer to the barony on the map.

Thus leading to the figuring out how to build the raft.


There are 8 people traveling in the party. After looking at their weight total they are a lot closer to 1200 lbs (sorry not 2500 lbs). I forgot they were no longer dragging the construct and got a bag of holding for it (after chopping it up). So they'll be carrying 1,200 lbs on the river. The river does have a powerful current but it is polluted and poisoned (ingestion).

What type of river hazzards should I have for poor survival checks as well?

 

[argo]

You say they have plenty of wood to work with. Assuming they also have plenty of rope (or a suitable substitute, or can make some rope) then I figgure they should be all set. Making a basic raft/barge ought to be a Craft check of DC 15-20 depending on how large they want the raft to be. DC 15 for something to carry 4 guys, DC 20 for something to carry 4 guys plus their ton of equipment. I'd let them make a Sruvival check against DC 20-25 instead (+5 to DC for "defaulting" to a related skill).

In boy scouts we would have called a project like this an afternoon of "fun"

The knolwedge skills (nature and engineering) ought to be able to add +2 bonuses. You describe your party as having "high" survival skills and decent knolwedge skills plus the appropriate tools. This ought to be something they can do.

As for sailing the raft: the PHB lists the speed of a raft/barge that is being poled as 1/2 mile per hour, plus since they are going downsream you add the speed of the current (ususally 3 miles per hour) for a total of 3 1/2 miles per hour that they pole it. 10 hours a day of poling the raft is 35 miles plus 14 more hours of simply drifting with the current is another 42 miles. Total is 77 miles in 24 hours. If the river is fairly easy and navigable I'd call it a Profession [sailor] check against DC 10, if the river is rough in places make it DC 15. Navigating any rapids would be Profession [sailor] DC 20 or sink the raft or they could loose several hours portaging the raft past the rapids instead. Again, I'd let them "default" to Survival at DC +5.

Hope that helps.

 

[Steverooo]

As for sailing the raft: the PHB lists the speed of a raft/barge that is being poled as 1/2 mile per hour, plus since they are going downsream you add the speed of the current (ususally 3 miles per hour) for a total of 3 1/2 miles per hour that they pole it. 10 hours a day of poling the raft is 35 miles plus 14 more hours of simply drifting with the current is another 42 miles. Total is 77 miles in 24 hours. If the river is fairly easy and navigable I'd call it a Profession [sailor] check against DC 10, if the river is rough in places make it DC 15. Navigating any rapids would be Profession [sailor] DC 20 or sink the raft or they could loose several hours portaging the raft past the rapids instead. Again, I'd let them "default" to Survival at DC +5.

Hope that helps.

The problem with Profession checks is, they can't be used, untrained... Best to make poling a raft just an unskilled STR check, with the penalty for failure being exhaustion...

 

[Steverooo]

What type of river hazzards should I have for poor survival checks as well?

What kinds do you want?

With the river polluted, I wouldn't have too many wildlife encounters... Go more along the lines of a sandbar that the raft becomes stuck on, maybe with some quicksand that the PCs can get stuck in, as they try to get the raft off the sandbar.

Perhaps a narrow riverbend that is hard to get through, where the large raft can get stuck, for a time, if they fail?

Maybe hungry predators, who used to fish in the river, now prowling the banks? (Bear, etc.)

Perhaps some form of slime/jelly/pudding that feeds on the poison?

 

[Tonguez]

It is possible to make a servicable raft out of bullrushes and/or flax stems (I've done it it took about 2 hours for a 1 person raft, but I've seen pictures of big examples carrying 20 people). They float suprisingly well although they do become waterlogged after a days use

So I'd make that a Survival check DC 15 for a raft that last 1 day and give it +1 day for every 5 points rolled above DC

 

[EdL]

Making the raft, with their high Survival skills, should be simple. Just say they take X amount of time to do so and don't waste any more valuable playing time. What I really want to know is why the village they are going to is on a poisoned river?

 

[DonTadow]

Making the raft, with their high Survival skills, should be simple. Just say they take X amount of time to do so and don't waste any more valuable playing time. What I really want to know is why the village they are going to is on a poisoned river?

They are on a newly founded continent run by gold elves. Hundreds of years ago, the elves sealed off the land for unknown reasons. When the pcs arrived on the continent they discovered the entire continent was cursed by something called "the cerebrus". The whole concept comes from a recent Dragon Magazine feature article. The cerebrus corrupts the land. The river, was not corrupted by the cerebrus, but by the hazardous byproducts produced and introduced into the soil by the twisted creatures now living in the cerebrus.

The village is not on the river but 5o miles away It is a village of wood elves whom use druidic magic to keep the cerebrus at bay. They generate their own source of water from magic purification.

I won't spend as much time on building the raft as on the role playing surrounding building the raft. The party refused to split up and were at somewhat odds at the end of session. one of the six wanted to go back to HYvenshire, the other wanted to "commondere the wagon, knock out the farmer and just take him along for the ride, another wanted to send the farmer on the chocoboo and take the wagon and return the good later. The leader and the pc whoms town is in danger talked them into going to the wood elf village first.