FR Podcast is up

[Nate Jones]

I've never used a single FR adventure which was shoved printed in any 3.x regional supplement. On the other hand, I tried to incorporate a healthy amount of historical data in my campaigns, in the form of ruins, ancient texts, artifacts from kingdoms long past, strange and wondrous locations, and so on.

Eberron CS, to me, felt... forced. Like the authors were compelled to write every single sentence of the book as a plot hook or adventure location. Every time I read the book I felt like there were a thousand annoying voices behind me chanting "PLAY ME! PLAY ME!" I dislike that.

Looks like they are aiming for the same goal with The New Realms. I hope for their sake that they did a very thorough market research prior to making that decision.

Perhaps I am but a lazy, bad DM, but I much preferred the Eberron style Campaign Setting Book to the Forgotten Realms. I felt Eberron held so much more energy, so much more potential than the dry annal style FRCS held. For me, reading the Forgotten Realms campaign gudie was a chore, which was completely opposite of what I felt with Eberron (I don't even like the Eberron setting!). I, for one, welcome our new Hook overlords.

 

[Nate Jones]

Edit: Late night double post. Sorry.

 

[Hussar]

I just loathe the world building wankery that goes on in most of those setting books. It's a "Read me once or twice and then sit on the shelf gathering dust" thing. I find that when I get these sorts of sourcebooks, they just do nothing but act as nicely bound paperweights.

If I'm going to shell out 40 bucks or so on a book, I want to use 99% of that book. That means adventures for me, because the history of the shape of windows just doesn't really do it for me.

I'm looking at the setting sourcebooks that I've bought over the years, and I realize that, after reading them, maybe even reading them a few times, I've used a tiny fraction of what's there.

Make it relavent or don't bother.

 

[Primal]

Out of that thirty plus minute podcast, the naysayers couldn't find a single thing that you liked or are looking forward to?

It seems that individuals are determined to dislike the new FR setting.

I thought that it was very interesting how much Ed Greenwood had contributed to the setting.

It appears from the podcast that Aber-Toril is his baby.

It appears we now know which realm was forgotten.

I had always thought that Forgotten Realms referenced the fact that Faerun had at one time been connected to our world by gates and that we had forgotten about Faerun.

If I have understood correctly, Ed Greenwood has mostly worked on "new" regions of the Realms, developing those unexplored continents (Anchorome) and other areas never detailed before. He disagrees with a lot of the 4E FR changes, which is pretty evident if you read his posts on Candlekeep.com.

Abeir-Toril has never been his creation. The name was invented by Jeff Grubb, and eventually 'Abeir' was dropped out of the need for "simplicity". The 4E Design Team apparently thought it would be cool and awesome if it were a "lost" sibling world, even though it would contradict a *LOT* of published Realmslore in the FR continuity (which to me speaks volumes).

 

[Wrox]

Nothing about Abeir contradicts established continuity. It's an additional element which you may or may not like, but its existence does nothing to invalidate standing lore.

The 4E Design Team apparently thought it would be cool and awesome if it were a "lost" sibling world, even though it would contradict a *LOT* of published Realmslore in the FR continuity (which to me speaks volumes).

 

[TrainedMunkee]

If I have understood correctly, Ed Greenwood has mostly worked on "new" regions of the Realms, developing those unexplored continents (Anchorome) and other areas never detailed before. He disagrees with a lot of the 4E FR changes, which is pretty evident if you read his posts on Candlekeep.com.

Abeir-Toril has never been his creation. The name was invented by Jeff Grubb, and eventually 'Abeir' was dropped out of the need for "simplicity". The 4E Design Team apparently thought it would be cool and awesome if it were a "lost" sibling world, even though it would contradict a *LOT* of published Realmslore in the FR continuity (which to me speaks volumes).

The realms was originally called the Forgotten Realms because the fair people of this little rock that we live on have forgotten the realms, excepting in myth. We were connected at one time through portals. This was Ed's original idea. Mr. Greenwood sold the rights to his creation and other authors have shaped the realms with their artistic ability since that time.

The Realms are no longer Mr. Greenwood's creation. Of course he doesn't like the changes, they aren't his changes. Does this make the changes bad? I have no idea, I will know come August.

If you are a staunch Greenwood supporter, I would think the fact that the previously unknown regions are his creation would have you shouting "Thank Ao!" Play in those regions. Mr. Greenwood is very creative, so these regions should be awesome. I'm excited, but then again I'm an optimist.

I am feeling good about the 4e book due to the fact that it appears we won't be getting a text book this time.

Space

 

[Henry]

I don't know what we can do, but you can pull your head out of the sand...Continue to tell me my glasses are rose tinted, and I'll continue to tell you to put yours on and take a good, damn look.

Let's please be more civil - no need to get hostile with one another. Enough with both the rose-colored glasses AND the heads in the sand.

 

[Khairn]

I don't know what we can do, but you can pull your head out of the sand and realize that these sweeping, essentially slate-clearing changes aren't nearly as sweeping and slate-cleaning as you'd like them to be.

That's right; I went there. I'm sorry if you want to continue being purposefully obtuse in your observations, which I believe your posts illustrate very well. I'm not going to convince you that the 4E team didn't ruin the Realms, but it's not because we have a difference in opinion; it's because you are adamant in your view-point, and you're not going to let the evidence sway you. It's like trying to explain evolution to a YEC, except our discussion hasn't led me to believe you are retarded, merely you have a viewpoint and you're going to stick with come hell or high water.

I'm sorry, man. I'm really not trying to pick on you. The only reason why I've been posting a lot in this thread is because my original summary was put on the front page, and thus I feel it's my obligation to clarify any misconceptions about the content of the podcast that may have come about due to my phrasing and presentation. I've tried to present this clarification, but in doing so, I've realized there are people who just want to nit-pick. They don't want further explication of what was in the pod-cast. You may or may not be one of these posters. I'm not a name calling kind of person, so I'll leave that one up to you.

It's still the Realms. Big, crazy happenings and a hundred years have changed it in many ways, but you cannot look at the setting and honestly say that it isn't a development and continuation of what had come before because it is, and every new tidbit of information they give us further reinforces that it still is very recognizably FR.

Continue to tell me my glasses are rose tinted, and I'll continue to tell you to put yours on and take a good, damn look.

First let me re-iterate what I said in my original post on this thread. I really love PoL, I can see how the designers are excited about what they are creating, and I can understand why WotC is making the changes to FR that they are.

I don’t know about you, but personally I am a long time fan of FR going back to the gray box. I don’t consider myself a canon-fanatic by any stretch, but I do like the extensive and detailed history and support that the setting had available for me to use (or not). I have enjoyed each revision of the Realms to various degrees. But the changes in the past have not been as dramatic as what we are seeing now. And its the changes for FR-4E that I am saying go too far and change too much of what I personally loved about the setting.

Lets take a look at just a few of the changes in design and actual set-up of the Realms that are being introduced.

-Move from the Renaissance theme for FR to more of a modern high fantasy feel
-Necessity to change the Realms to fit 4E Pardigm
-Death of Mystra that causes the Weave to collapse. Something that didn’t happen in the past when Mystryl and the original Mystra died
-Spellplague that sweeps across the world, shattering nations, porting in new realms, centered around places of high magic use, but somehow seems to by-pass Warterdeep, Cormyr, Silverymoon
-Death/ expulsion/ demotion of how many … ¾ (?) of the realms gods
-Sespech, the Golden Plains, and the Nagalands are gone, replaced with “Plaguewrought” lands where Faerun now has Motes- floating landbergs
-Across Faerun you have magical / fantastical landscapes interspersed with regular stone and earth
-Vilhon Reach is gone
-Unther is gone
-Destruction of Halrua
-Elimination of Maztica
-Large portions of Chondath and Chessenta ported away and replaced
-Ret-con of Faerun Cosmology from Great Wheel

I do admit that I was wrong when I said the changes were “slate cleaning”. But these changes seem a lot more than just development and continuation of the setting to me.

And these changes are just off the top of my head. If you want I can go and gather more or provide you with the links if needed. My point is that the changes to FR (in addition to what has happened by moving to 4E) are both extensive and dramatic.

I'm not trying to nit-pik and I certainly don't want to descend into “name calling”. My opinion, is that the over-all changes are numerous and varied to the point that it no longer feels like the Realms I've enjoyed over the years. Its now a new setting that to a large part, has separated itself from its past IMHO. That’s not hyperbole, its my opinion.

And as I said on an earlier post, all of this is personal opinion, and is based on some articles and podcasts. None of us have seen the final product and until we do, we won’t know how it will turn out.

 

[PeterWeller]

-Move from the Renaissance theme for FR to more of a modern high fantasy feel

I'm not sure if you can say the FR had a Renaissance theme that's been subverted by a more modern high fantasy feel. FR has always been high fantasy with perhaps a tinge of Renaissance.

Necessity to change the Realms to fit 4E Pardigm

As opposed to changing the Realms to fit the 2E and 3E paradigms.

-Death of Mystra that causes the Weave to collapse. Something that didn’t happen in the past when Mystryl and the original Mystra died

They did a better job of killing her this time. It makes sense even if you don't like it.

-Spellplague that sweeps across the world, shattering nations, porting in new realms, centered around places of high magic use, but somehow seems to by-pass Warterdeep, Cormyr, Silverymoon

Note how the areas it bypasses are areas that are considered core regions of the Realms. It's basically ignoring the areas presented in the original Gray Box.

-Death/ expulsion/ demotion of how many … ¾ (?) of the realms gods

We don't know the number, and it's probably going to be a case of demotion over expulsion or death, in which case their religions are still going to be important and pertinent.

-Sespech, the Golden Plains, and the Nagalands are gone, replaced with “Plaguewrought” lands where Faerun now has Motes- floating landbergs

These are ancillary regions.

-Across Faerun you have magical / fantastical landscapes interspersed with regular stone and earth

I don't think adding more fantastical elements to the setting really changes it all that much, but YMMV, of course.

-Vilhon Reach is gone
-Unther is gone
-Destruction of Halrua
-Elimination of Maztica
-Large portions of Chondath and Chessenta ported away and replaced

More arguably ancillary regions. Also, we don't know if Maztica has been eliminated. The language used was "subsumed."

-Ret-con of Faerun Cosmology from Great Wheel

Open your 3E FR book to page 256 and read about the cosmology of the Realms.

Listen, I'm not saying there aren't some major changes going on, but those changes really don't alter the core of the setting in great ways. They alter the outlying regions in some major ways, but the core has stayed relatively the same. Look at the regions you mentioned: Sespech, Halruaa, Maztica, etc. These are all outlying regions that barely registered a mention in the 1E and 2E boxes.

 

[DandD]

F

-Move from the Renaissance theme for FR to more of a modern high fantasy feel
-Necessity to change the Realms to fit 4E Pardigm
-Death of Mystra that causes the Weave to collapse. Something that didn’t happen in the past when Mystryl and the original Mystra died
-Spellplague that sweeps across the world, shattering nations, porting in new realms, centered around places of high magic use, but somehow seems to by-pass Warterdeep, Cormyr, Silverymoon
-Death/ expulsion/ demotion of how many … ¾ (?) of the realms gods
-Sespech, the Golden Plains, and the Nagalands are gone, replaced with “Plaguewrought” lands where Faerun now has Motes- floating landbergs
-Across Faerun you have magical / fantastical landscapes interspersed with regular stone and earth
-Vilhon Reach is gone
-Unther is gone
-Destruction of Halrua
-Elimination of Maztica
-Large portions of Chondath and Chessenta ported away and replaced
-Ret-con of Faerun Cosmology from Great Wheel

Wait a minute, didn't all these changes already happen with that Times of Troubles-sillyness already? All Assassins died back then, gods died in the dozens, new nations arised, the changes from a totally hog-wash medieval fantasy world to a even more hog-wash renaissance world, floating islands, tons of portals and all that stuff... Also, in 3rd edition, Faerun never was part of the Great Wheel anymore, it was ret-coned to be always these crystal-sphere-thingies in the official campaign book.

Of course, the Forgotten Realms always were hog-wash, and trying to make all these things stick to canon makes it like Star Trek. As soon as there is some change, or something doesn't stick to canon, it's the ultimate terror, and the sky is falling. I'd rather have new iterations, like Transformers: Animated retelling the Transformers saga, but this time even better.